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Offlineeffwun
supafly guy
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 27
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Exploding Oven Bags
    #436504 - 10/25/01 10:00 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

hey all

my friend's gerbil read about using oven bags to sterilize casing. previous to using oven bags the gerbil used plain old quart jars. so here's the problem. the gerbil fills up the bags and tightens them (read: no impulse sealer) problem is, when cooking the bags expands. one time it expanded so much it blocked the gas release on the PC before it even got to a half hour (he knows this because when PC'ing the casing mix the first time he heard the pressure control knob stop jiggling. being a smart gerbil he knew something was amiss and stopped cooking, and after cooling enough to open the PC he noticed the bag expanded.) so he thought he'd just put less casing mix in the bags and try it that way. that is where he ran into to exploding bags. he really doesn't understand why this is happening, he (and i) thought that the pressure in the PC would keep whatever gas in the bags under the same pressure and thus preventing the explosion. it seems to me that the gas inside the bag is not at the same pressure as the gas outside of the bags in the pressure cooker. let me add a little additional info: he's using the 50/50+ casing tek and filling the PC about half way with water after the bag of casing mix is added. he hasn't ruled out that perhaps the bag touched the side of the PC, and that caused the rupture. but if that is the case, why did the first bag expand so much? he's thinks it isn't the seal because it seems the bags would expand and burst anyway. anyone else's gerbil had this problem?


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Invisibledurban_poison
myco contractor
Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 2,417
Re: Exploding Oven Bags [Re: effwun]
    #436510 - 10/25/01 10:06 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

same shit happened to my friend so hes going to try autoclavable bags


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Invisibletriptor
member

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 123
Loc: Confussion
Re: Exploding Oven Bags [Re: durban_poison]
    #436575 - 10/25/01 11:33 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

You must allow for gas exchange or the steam in the bags will always cause expansion. Check into putting polyfill in the end and tightening around that or micron magic filters. Good luck


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Invisiblenight trainV
Stranger
Male

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 468
Loc: Midwest US
Re: Exploding Oven Bags [Re: triptor]
    #436653 - 10/26/01 12:41 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Just fold the top of the bag over and clip it with a clothespin. Seal it after it cools in the pc.


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Offlineeffwun
supafly guy
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 27
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Exploding Oven Bags [Re: triptor]
    #438538 - 10/27/01 10:29 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

1.) won't that make the casing mix too moist allowing gas (water vapor) to exit, which in turn would allow it into the bag.

2.) do those that use autoclave bags have to allow for gas exchange or is the plastic stronger

3.) why doesn't the pressure outside the bag keep it from bursting?


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Offlinefelixhigh
KIA
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 7,543
Loc: Ly
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Exploding Oven Bags [Re: effwun]
    #438738 - 10/28/01 01:26 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

why dont you try to boil or bake some in your oven? it worked for my wookie friend...


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Anonymous

Re: Exploding Oven Bags [Re: felixhigh]
    #438893 - 10/28/01 05:51 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

my wookie had *nothing* but problems baking. 50% contam. 50% dried out before colonized.


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InvisibleMrB
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/01
Posts: 23
Re: Exploding Oven Bags [Re: effwun]
    #439180 - 10/28/01 06:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

A short lesson in thermal physics. At least what I remeber from Physics II this summer..anyways although your heating up the bag under constant pressure, the gas inside is gaining energy in from the heat transfer..this makes the molecules of gas more excited and the move around faster and faster causing the bag to expand. This is why your wookie/gerbil/foaf is having explosion problems :)



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Anonymous

Re: Exploding Oven Bags [Re: effwun]
    #439248 - 10/28/01 08:39 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Oven Bags come with ties to close the bag. Don't completely close them. Allow an opening so watervapor can escape into the cooker. Any sealed bag runs the risk of exploding. DON"T COMPLETELY SEAL THE BAGS!!!!!!!!!!! Allow to cool overnight in the pressure cooker, open, spray lysol inside, and remove bag to case trays. You don't need filters for sterilization, filters are for spawn bags that are sealed after innoculation for gas exchange. Using a filter bag for casing soil is a waste. Just wrap the tie around the bag tight enough to secure, but loose enough to leave a small hole, about 1/4 inch, for the release of vapor.

And put one of the pressure cooker racks on top of the bag, so it doesn't expand and block your pressure release valve. You want the bag to be able to let out watervapor, but you want it weighted down a bit so it won't clog up the release valve.


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