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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Psychiatry [Re: niteowl]
    #4347542 -

Mushrooms and smoke just make it worse. He used to enjoy tripping before his problem, but now the condition is aggravated by doing these things. Even drinking a few beers sets him off. Therapy is pointless with schizophrenia..it just don't work because the schizophrenic is so absorbed in his problem he won't listen to anyone. When he is in balance he is quite rational. Medication can make the disease inactive for a while. If the medication is properly administered he does not seem drugged. The medicine has to be rotated every few months, when that happens he is weird for a day or so and then he is fine. He earned a degree in sociology while on medication so I don't think it impairs his mental state that much. The drugs he takes are anti psychotics. Believe me he isn't being pumped randomly full of drugs.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4347678 -

hue coyote oozes truth

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4348277 -

huehuecoyotl;

did you previously post that the only good way to trip was by using massive dosages of lsd etc. (I remember something about heimlich manouvers and such being required)

you indicate here that your schizophrenic brother used to trip with you.

I know that this is not a court room, but did you influence him into taking massive dosages of lsd?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4349779 -

ToiletDuk said:
To be sure, psychiatry is sort of a "hit-or-miss" deal. Unlike, say chemistry or mathematics, A + B does not always equal C. It's still an inexact science, mainly because we know so very little about how the brain and the mind works. But for some, it really DOES help. We shouldn't just dismiss it outright....


Hmmmmm.... kind of like a certain group that is being talked about in another thread around here.......


I dont think psychiatry will ever be an exact science. Right now, we are like a toddler with a remote control when it comes to the brain. We understand that if we push certain things, some random phenomenon happens. We have yet to ever find the memory, or the mind (maybe it is because it isnt in the brain?), they just point to a coil of brain tissue and say, right here is how you figure out rubics cubes, and this wrinkle over here deals with left-handedness.....

Answer me this.... what would be the evolutionary purpose for the incredible, and amazing increase in mental disorders such as depression, anxiety and OCD? Why would there not be a gradual decrease instead of a "40% increase between the years 1995 to 1998"? What could possibly explain this seemingly instantaneous worldwide affliction? hmmmmmm.....

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4349795 -

Answer me this.... what would be the evolutionary purpose for the incredible, and amazing increase in mental disorders such as depression, anxiety and OCD? Why would there not be a gradual decrease instead of a "40% increase between the years 1995 to 1998"? What could possibly explain this seemingly instantaneous worldwide affliction? hmmmmmm.....


$$$$$$$$$$

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: niteowl]
    #4349828 -

no! say it aint so..... you mean even the government, FDA, APA and the pharmaceutical companies could all be making money from this?

Lets figure this one out.... Lets make a product, and like most advertising, tell people they will be happier using it, that all of their problems will go away. But we cant let the consumer control the market, or set the price via supply and demand. We should also lobby government so that they cant go to foreign markets to buy and subvert our product..... hmmmmm, ill let you decide....

America is exporting jobs overseas and country lines, yet it is unamerican to go to canada to buy these drugs at a drastically lower price.

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4349845 -

The simple fact that there are prescription drug being advertised on TV, tells me there is something WRONG here.

Most of the adds don't even tell you what the drug is used for, just..."Ask your Dr about ZYXXYZ" :rolleyes:

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4349977 -

Uh, no. The fact is, I HAVE been helped with my mental disorder (severe, recurring depression with psychotic feature) thanks in large part to the medications I take. Regardless of the motivation of the drug companies, these medication DO help people. The fact that these companies are motivated by profit does not negate the effectiveness I have found with their products. We live in a capitalistic society - so it sort of comes with the territory, I suppose. While it is no doubt true that there are some instances of over-presciption of these meds, still to outright condemn it for everyone is a bit short sighted. And I seriously doubt a "religion" started by a sci-fi hack writer would've helped me more.

As to the rise in diagnosed mental disorders, it could be possibly due to more people willing to come forward and admit that they have a problem. And I wouldn't discount the fact that there are simply more people alive today (and living longer) than quite possibly any other time in history which is contributing to this....

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: niteowl]
    #4350132 -

I'm not familiar with the source of the 40% increase in "mental disorders". I'd be interested to see it, as "mental disroders" are usually classified in a specific manner. As far as I know, the 1% prevalence rate of schizophrenia has remained stable.

Regardless, as toliet said perhaps it's because people feel more comfortable asking for help and acknowledging they have a problem. This could be due to less social stigmatization, but also because help is more readily available in the form of medications. The newer "Atypical" antipsychotics and SSRI's were both introduced in the 90's. These drugs are relatively new in that they're only a decade or so old. I know I'd feel more comfortable asking for help in dealing with a mental disorder if I knew there were medications that could potantially help.

These drugs cost a substantial amount to make. FDA regulations are strict and adequate testing needs to be done. The red tape in bringin a drug to market is enormous and costly. While it is quite profitable the companies are offsetting development costs and the costs of failed drugs which never make it to market.

In any event, the bottom line is that these drugs work. Sure there are many who say: "Well I had a friend take X,Y,and Z and it was horrible". But there are also cited clinical trials where 1,000's of people have been helped.

Psychiatry is a science. It follows scientific method and is based on sound principles. The problem is that it involves te study of the mind. Something which is quite philosophical and debateble.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4350353 -

You are very perceptive. My brother's tripping was limited to party style experiences. He also used heavy doses. Through his 20s he accumulated about 300 experiences with psychedelics. What caused my brothers problem was a massive car accident where he suffered a serious brain injury. His skull is over 1/3 steel. The symptoms started slowly to appear after the wreck, but took a few years to become full blown. I have considered what you suggest. His doctor knows of his psychedelic experiences and does not believe it played a part. Brain injuries can cause schizophrenic reactions. Schizophrenia is a word for a broad class of related illnesses that can have various causes. It is an illness of the body and spirit. His doctor treats the physical problem...he is completely anti-religious and also thinks shamanism is bullshit, when he is rational, so the spiritual damage is likely to linger for some years. Oh, yeah....he is the one that originally talked me into the LSD usage (he is older)...I was a bit of a stick in the mud while he was always after more interesting experiences...so he influenced me more than the other way around. It is worth noting that if he does trip (last time 2 years ago...shrooms) that while he trips he is very ratiional, but after the trip the illness really hits him hard for a few days. I have never known him to have a bad trip under any circumstances. The illness pisses him off because he cannot trip anymore without a backlash. I know much better than to talk a newbie into launching headlong into a reality altering experience like a massive LSD dose. I have also talked people down from bad acid trips before...once while at work... So, for the record, I did not force feed him a gram of LSD...he would have stolen it from me had he known I had it in any case. Also for the record...it has been 10 years since I took any LSD....he has had schizophrenia for 6.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/29/05 02:14 PM)

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4350445 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Also for the record...it has been 10 years since I took any LSD.


By definition, taking acid and then going to school would be a bad trip. :lol: :shocked:

Personally, I'm toking up before I go mow that lawn... I was going to put it off until tomorrow, because I'm like super tired, but, as I'm trying to pull my dog off of my bed to take him outside, he pisses on my bed.... Sleep is now a laundry cycle away... :mad:

In one of my more reactionary moments, I decided that, if my bed was to be wet, his would be as well, so I went down to his kennel after I had put him in it and sprayed him with a water bottle. :lol:

Seven day vacation starting tomorrow! :evil:

I apologize for the personal shit busting through right there, I couldn't contain it... I think my experience needs to be verified... anyone a notary? :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4350459 -

I have never taken a hallucinogen at school, but I think it might be interesting...particularly discussion oriented classes. I just would not want to drive so I have never tried it. Did it while skydiving once, though. Fuck the water bottle...piss on the dog...he will learn.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4350503 -

Neither of you may train my dog! :crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Icelander]
    #4350542 -

What do you mean? My dog, Leonard, is wise beyond his years. Have I told you that he is an ordained minister with the Universal Life Church? He is hindered by the tragic circumstance that caused him to be born with out hands or the power of speech (he was born a dog), but he has coped remarkably.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4350580 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
I have never taken a hallucinogen at school, but I think it might be interesting...particularly discussion oriented classes.


Sorry, my misconception, I thought you were referring to having to bring a student of yours off of a bad trip. :lol:

You are definitely right, man, leading a discussion like that would definitely be interesting... maybe it should be mandatory that you do it, give them all a real glimpse of the true, subtle, underlying reality... :lol:

Quote:
Fuck the water bottle...piss on the dog...he will learn.


I do recall that being one of the threats he was delivered... :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4350597 -

No, I once talked down a temporary worker at a manufacturing facility where I was employed with public safety. He had come to work after 3 hits of acid (he eventually confided this to me) and had a bad reaction (no wonder...duh!). I talked him into a reasonable frame of mind and called a taxi to take him home. I did not tell his employer what his problem was. I told them that he was experiencing severe personal problems at home. I did not report his situation because he was an 18 year old kid and I felt like he neded a break. Is this compassion or neglect? Note: If he had done it again while I was on duty I would have called the police.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4350972 -

Most dogs are wise beyond their years, having to deal with their owners. :crazy:

I trained dogs in obediance for awhile for some $$$. I have never heard of the man/dog pissing contest for training, but some dogs learn anyway. :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: MolokoMilkPlus]
    #4351709 -

I agree with most of what Foucault said. It seems to me psychiatry is more of an art than a science. I think it can help people, but I'm more of a "physician heal thyself" person when it comes to mental problems. For instance, I cured myself of depression that lasted several years using diet and exercise alone. I could have gone to a psychologist and had a pill prescribed for me that would work for two weeks and give me side effects until it stopped working, but I chose the natural route. If you want to change your brain chemistry then stop stuffing your face with Big Macs and french fries. Hellooo?

My only foray into this area was when my grades plummeted during my sophomore year of college. I went to a campus shrink who advised me in one thirty minute meeting that I merely needed to learn to relax. After beating him senseless with a paper weight I realized the truth of his words and never returned.


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Jellric]
    #4352131 -

Diet and exercise can cure many problems, but if the problem is NOT rooted in lifestyle then you will he healthier, but still disturbed. That said, diet can affect brain chemistry and poor diet can cause depression and listlessness.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Psychiatry [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4352905 -

thanks
even I feel better
you are a good talker downer.
which is a great skill
admirable
good work.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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