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OfflineUnagipie
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Registered: 08/11/05
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Psychiatry is like Voodoo
    #4568305 - 08/22/05 11:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

If you believe in it, it's real. If you don't believe in it, it's not real.


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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InvisibleCaptainH13
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Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 10,287
Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Unagipie]
    #4568317 - 08/22/05 11:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i just had to come in here becuse it says Voodoo...


yea i believe in it(real,Haitian Voodoo,not that hollyweird stuff)...haha...



:zombie:


--------------------


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InvisibleRavus
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Registered: 07/18/03
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Unagipie]
    #4568563 - 08/23/05 12:00 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Are you a scientologist?

And how can psychiatry not be real? Perhaps it's flawed, as many fields of study of the human mind are, but it has achieved some pretty respectable results by using drugs to help control human mental imbalances.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Unagipie]
    #4569193 - 08/23/05 02:13 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Psychiatry has its uses for a certain segment of the population. I remember reading approximately 25 years ago that only people with high intelligence will benefit from a visits to a psychiatrist. Most people are unable to see beyond from where they psychologically sit.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Ravus]
    #4569302 - 08/23/05 03:03 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not a scientologist. And I believe psychiatry is a flawed science, as is psychology and psycho-analysis.


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Unagipie]
    #4569305 - 08/23/05 03:04 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Indeed, I would agree, it is flawed, but what do you propose as the alternative?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Frog]
    #4569306 - 08/23/05 03:05 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'd like to see a more recent study than something from 25 years ago, when psychiatry and psychoanalysis were fairly popular. :shrug:


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Ravus]
    #4569309 - 08/23/05 03:07 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Whatever they used before psychiatry was founded would work just fine


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Unagipie]
    #4569622 - 08/23/05 09:07 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Unagipie said:
If you believe in it, it's real. If you don't believe in it, it's not real.




Life is like Voodoo ...... :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblepopnganja420
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Icelander]
    #4569635 - 08/23/05 09:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well, if you read up on current events then you would know that psychology and psychiatry are just getting started. Russia is in the process of legalizing LSD-25 again for study. And me being bipolar and brought up in a fucked up childhood, I have found both to be just as useful, psychology and psychiatry. I need meds and counseling because if you crossed me on the street and looked at me funny I'd think you wanted to kill me and then I would have to kill you.

Now the Army plays a part in it and how my mind got wrapped up in it, Death ain't nothing but a thing, it's either me or you. Now I would think that you would want me to go to counseling, even though you don't think it works, I bet you'd still recommend I go to counseling.

And I've been to Haiti and I've been to the Voodoo temples, that shit is real and crazy! 75% of the population is Southwest Voodoo, and about 5% is christian... I went on a church missions trip for 2 weeks.


--------------------
"... Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Genesis


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InvisibleIcelander
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Male

Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: popnganja420]
    #4569653 - 08/23/05 09:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Right! It's really all about the quality of the counseling you get. A lot of it really sucks because all you have to do is make it through school and get your paper and such. You don't have to be healthy yourself to qualify as a counselor. That's a big problem.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOakbear
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Unagipie]
    #4569672 - 08/23/05 09:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

First, the disclaimers -
One - I'm a psychiatric nurse.
Two - There is a little ambiguity as what constitues psychiatry between Europe and the US. I'm working from the European model.
This means it is less about rich people paying someone to analyse their dreams, and more about psychosis, mood disorders, medication and teaching psychological tools.

Obviously psychiatry is a flawed science, otherwise we would be curing everyone. There is so much we don't know, but psychiatry attempts to learn about the nature of mental disorder/distress, and aid those who suffer from it.

Sometimes it can be unhelpful or even harmful, and people can make mistakes. It can take control of people's lives, and is often misused.
Medications, which are often helpful, are not magic wands, and often have nasty side effects.

However, good psychiatry is about helping people to understand themselves, why they are as they are, and how they can cope with it. It is about empowering people to deal with sometimes debilitating conditions.
It is also sometimes about protecting the public, as well as the person themselves. Naturally conflict can arise from this.
I don't think you can simply 'not believe' in these concepts.

I know schizophrenia is a flawed diagnosis, but technicalities aside, if anybody tells me it doesn't exist they clearly have no objective experience of it. It is a horrendous condition which i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I've seen psychiatry help countless people that didn't believe they were ill to begin with.

Unagipie - What did they have before psychiatry if it worked so well?
I can only recall histories of either community base care in a select few cultures (such as some Native American peoples), which is a luxury not afforded many in modern society, palliative care by religious groups (often termed the start of psychiatry), or serious abuses and neglect of vulnerable people.


--------------------
UK Gathering? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6108350/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD

"I'm no fucking Buddhist, but this is enlightenment"


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OfflineOakbear
Trust me, I'm anurse!
Male

Registered: 05/08/05
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Icelander]
    #4569703 - 08/23/05 09:44 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Right! It's really all about the quality of the counseling you get. A lot of it really sucks because all you have to do is make it through school and get your paper and such. You don't have to be healthy yourself to qualify as a counselor. That's a big problem.




Counselling isn't really psychiatry, but there are similarities. The lack of qualification of counsellors is indeed a serious issue though!

Having said that, you wouldn't believe some of the characters i've worked with who have got themselves 'on the right side of the fence'!


--------------------
UK Gathering? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6108350/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD

"I'm no fucking Buddhist, but this is enlightenment"


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Unagipie]
    #4569721 - 08/23/05 09:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Unagipie said:
If you believe in it, it's real. If you don't believe in it, it's not real.




The same could be said about any aspect of reality.  :rolleyes:

Sorry to discredit the entire existance of this universe and all of us in a single sentence. :lol:  :thumbdown:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Oakbear]
    #4569883 - 08/23/05 10:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

or serious abuses and neglect of vulnerable people.



as if this isn't happening now.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Edited by crunchytoast (08/23/05 10:49 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4569891 - 08/23/05 10:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
as if this doesn't happen now.




It only happens if you believe it happens... If you believe it doesn't happen.... then.. it doesn't! :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Oakbear]
    #4569898 - 08/23/05 10:50 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Oakbear said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Right! It's really all about the quality of the counseling you get. A lot of it really sucks because all you have to do is make it through school and get your paper and such. You don't have to be healthy yourself to qualify as a counselor. That's a big problem.




Counselling isn't really psychiatry, but there are similarities. The lack of qualification of counsellors is indeed a serious issue though!

Having said that, you wouldn't believe some of the characters i've worked with who have got themselves 'on the right side of the fence'!




          Right! I was lumping them all together. There are lay people who can do wonders as counselors and professionals that suck and do damage. Very nice posts by the way. It's so good to hear your open minded attitude toward your profession. My guess is you're one of the good ones. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOakbear
Trust me, I'm anurse!
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Registered: 05/08/05
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4569992 - 08/23/05 11:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
Quote:

or serious abuses and neglect of vulnerable people.



as if this isn't happening now.




Yes abuses happen, mental health services are in a powerful position. Sometimes people are detained in hospital, dosed up with meds, and denied their freedom.
Sometimes this is neccessary, sometimes it isn't. Often it's a very tough call to make. Not doing that can be neglect too of course. Every effort is taken to make sure we try and get it right, and there are a series of laws and rights which independantly guide this.

We've still got a long way to though.

But people are no longer routinely beaten, totured, locked in the attic, thrown from their village, kept in irons or burnt at the stake.
Now people try to help them. You've got a good chance of recovery now, and people willing to support you.


--------------------
UK Gathering? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6108350/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD

"I'm no fucking Buddhist, but this is enlightenment"


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OfflineOakbear
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Icelander]
    #4570002 - 08/23/05 11:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Cheers Icelander, i'd like to think i'm on the light side!

Mind you over here most nurses are critical of psychiatry to a greater or lesser extent, and whole heartedly support patient rights.

Doctors (as a sweeping generalisation, although some are fantastic)on the other hand are a few years behind......


--------------------
UK Gathering? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6108350/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD

"I'm no fucking Buddhist, but this is enlightenment"


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/10/99
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Re: Psychiatry is like Voodoo [Re: Oakbear]
    #4571742 - 08/23/05 07:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Mental Health Counseling is the youngest of mental health disciplines in the US. We are licensed in each state and can achieve specialization at the national level (Certfied Clinical Mental Health Counselor) which requires videotaped session evaluation along with training, experience and references. It is a Masters level license, but many of us hold Ph.D. degrees. The model is derived from education, not the medical model, thus, we call our counselees 'clients' (as in Roger's "client-centered" therapy) rather than patients. Clients are seeen as primarily healthy beings, albeit, with obstacles to healthy living. Patients are seen first in terms of pathologies - patients are 'sick people.' There are subspecialities such as addiction counseling, and hypnotherapy.

I'm an INTP (MBTI) and tend to be analytical, not touchy-feely. I've had 8 years of Jungian analysis with 3 Zurich-trained Jungians. Different typologies go for different theoretical orientations. If we believe meds are called for, we refer out to a psychiatrist. Often, they listen to our recommendations, agree and prescribe. When that happens, it's almost as good as having our own DEA license to dispense meds! In July of this year, we were finally allowed to Baker Act a client (have a client involuntarily hospitalized if we deem them harmful to self or others).

I thought some clarification was in order with regard to licensed counselors in the US. We are regulated by law, have a code of professional ethics and join clinical social workers, marriage and family therapists, psychiatric nurses and psychologists as another non M.D./D.O. mental health discipline.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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