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Operation Infinite Disaster
    #427688 - 10/16/01 08:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

President Bush's war planners have struggled to find a fitting code name for our latest military venture. But after a week of war, there's only one appropriate label for the nightmare that has transpired: Operation Infinite Disaster.

Leave aside, for the moment, the moral shortcomings and Orwellian implications of bombing starved people to "fight for freedom" or honor the dead of the September 11 tragedy. What's even more striking about the War Against ... Somebody is that, even on the Bush administration's own terms, the bombing of Afghanistan has thus far been a failure -- a series of tactical blunders guaranteed to make a bad situation much, much worse.

A quick inventory of the week's events tell the story:

BOMBING PEOPLE WITH FOOD: The first sign of trouble was news that Bush -- in a move to give the brutal bombings a humanitarian spin -- had opted to drop food supplies along with cluster bombs. This public relations stunt quickly backfired, however, when every major relief agency in the world derided the drops for 1) being insufficient (enough to feed about .5% of the starving population for a single day, provided the rations got to the intended "targets"); 2) containing food Afghan people never eat (hello, peanut butter?!); and 3) having the disadvantage of landing in fields strewn with land mines, adding injury to insult.

HIGH-TECH STRIKES IN A LOW-TECH WORLD: Then came evidence that U.S. bombs are hitting worthless targets -- when they hit at all. This may surprise U.S. readers, who, much like during the Gulf War, have been treated to giddy media reports cooing over the Pentagon's high-tech "smart" weaponry: gee-whiz gadgets like satellite targeting which supposedly make military strikes "surgical" -- and blood-free. (Although, in 1991 the Pentagon admitted that under six percent of Gulf War weapons used "smart" technology -- and even among these brilliant bombs, fully 20% missed their mark.)

The Pentagon says they've gotten better; time -- if not the media -- will tell. But what have these intelligent machines of destruction been hitting? A few terrorist training camps, which, as journalist Robert Fisk noted, our planes had "no difficulty spotting ... because, of course, most of them were built by the CIA when Mr. bin Laden and his men were the good guys."

But overall, the Taliban is a low-tech army -- and bombing their outdated airstrips and archaic phone systems has had little impact on how they control their terrain. And technology is only as good as the fallible humans who use it, which leads to the next mistake:

KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE: "Serious blunders by American warplanes may have killed at least 100 civilians in Afghanistan," according to eye-witness accounts obtained by The Observer of London and reported on Sunday, October 14. (U.S. newspapers have been slow to report evidence of innocent people dying.) These deaths -- in Karam village, 18 miles west of Jalalabad -- came after news of the four workers killed in a U.N. building devoted to clearing land mines.

A total of 400 civilian deaths have been confirmed. Personal testimony from fleeing refugees suggest hundreds more.

What has been the effect of these deaths, besides belying the notion that war can be waged without ending innocent lives? According to The Guardian of London, the Karam killings are straining ties between the U.S. and its shaky allies in the anti-terrorism coalition.

And among the Arab and Muslim populace, the response is predictable: "Reports of between 50 and 150 deaths" the Guardian reports, have "provoked rage and grief throughout Afghanistan and throughout the Muslim world."

Which brings us to what the U.S.-led strikes *have * succeeded in doing:

IGNITING AN EXPLOSIVE BACKLASH: I'm not referring to the 30,000 protesters who marched in England against the U.S.-led bombing, the 70,000 who marched in India, the 70,000 who marched in Germany, or similar protests which have filled the streets in "friendly" turf like Italy, Greece, and our own cities.

I'm also not referring to the boomerang response to U.S. bombing in the form of terrorist counter-attacks, which have plunged America into dread fear of powdery envelopes and exposed nuclear reactors.

No, more troubling are the 20,000 students who took over the streets of Egypt yelling "U.S. go to hell!" The Jakarta Muslims threatening to kill U.S. tourists and embassy workers. The millions of Arab-Americans and Muslims who are raging -- violently -- against the U.S. in Jordan, South Africa, Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan (brought to the brink of civil war) and Nigeria, where "hundreds" may be dead due to rioting.

President Bush's reaction has instilled little confidence. When asked in a press conference last Friday for his response to the vitriolic hatred that has mushroomed around the globe, Bush could only mumble: "I'm amazed. I just can't believe it because I know how good we are" -- which, in the world's eyes, must bring profoundly new meaning to the word "naivet?."

This disheartening string of missteps, feeding an upswell of moral outrage, led everyone's favorite war-watching website -- www.debka.com -- to post this headline over the weekend: "First Week of U.S. Offensive in Afghanistan is Inconclusive Militarily, Earthshaking Geo-Politically."

And for what? To the Pentagon's dismay, Bin Laden hasn't been "flushed out." The Taliban isn't waving a white flag. Our supposed allies, the opium-running North Alliance, seem confused about whether or not they should take over the country.

Amidst such chaos, the Bush camp has resorted to the time-tested tactic of creating a diversion, suggesting the blame for September 11 may lay elsewhere -- Iraq (surprise) being the favorite fall guy. This comes just weeks after every media mouthpiece instructed us that "ONLY the resources and skills of Osama bin Laden" and the "al-Quaeda network" could have been responsible.

The U.S. may or may not be able to reverse its miserable military fortunes in Afghanistan. But the more dangerous consequences of the U.S. bombing campaign -- a world aroused into anger against American arrogance, in part the very reason for the September 11 tragedy -- will stay with us for a very long time.

Chris Kromm is Director of the Institute for Southern Studies in Durham, North Carolina.



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Offlinemadscientist
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Registered: 05/26/01
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: -]
    #427983 - 10/17/01 01:18 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

operation make things infinitely worse would be more appropriate. Or how about: operation help the terrorists get tthousands of new recruits?


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Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: -]
    #428298 - 10/17/01 11:14 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

STOP IT! STOP IT!

Americans don't like to hear the truth.

Let's just wave flags and spout patriotic verse. And remember, it is better to do SOMETHING, even if it is disatrous, than to do nothing at all.

Those of us speaking for a course of action that will bring us long-term security instead of short-term emotional satisfaction are branded at best as *gak* Pacifists, and at worst, traitors.

It is unpatriotic to NOT want more blood. Bush talks of the terrorists as perverted Muslims. And what do you call Christians who violate their Prime Directive?

Bush could only mumble: "I'm amazed. I just can't believe it because I know how good we are" -- which, in the world's eyes, must bring profoundly new meaning to the word "naivet?."

I was also astounded by his statement. Shows he has no clue about the rest of the world and should not be in charge.

Kind of like Dad's statement about how in the Gulf War we were there to protect the Democracy of Kuwait. Ah, sorry King George, it is a MONARCHY. But hell, you can't expect him to know the political system of every country can you?

World War III here we come. Start loading up on food, water and gold...







--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: -]
    #428685 - 10/17/01 07:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, I knew the bombings were a horrible choice from the start. I, personally, think they should send in ground troops to assist the Northern Alliance and install a democratic government and actually help the people of Afghanistan so shit like this won't happen again. But then, I'm no expert on the policies of the Northern Alliance, they are fighting for a democratic government right?


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Offlinemadscientist
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: MrKurtz]
    #429007 - 10/18/01 12:55 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yup, if they just sent in ground troops it would be much better. It may mean casualties but then again, troops are unlikely to go 'off course' and blow up a school. This stand-off bombing is viewed as cowardice by many people in the real world.


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Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: MrKurtz]
    #429121 - 10/18/01 04:15 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

No, in fact part(although not the majority) of the Taliban were originally part of the Mujahadeen which is the majority of Nothern Alliance leaders. They didn't install a democratic government when they came to power the first time and in fact there is documented proof that they have inflicted as many atrosicities on the people of Afghan as the Taliban has. If we sent in ground troops before an intense bombing campaign it would have been like the Soviet and British invasion all over, the destruction of a superior force. Plus the Northern Alliance does not make up the majority of Afghans and would most likely be seen as an puppet government by the people of Afghanistan.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: madscientist]
    #429124 - 10/18/01 04:17 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What schools? Are you prepared for the draft if we're just going to send in ground troops?


--------------------
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: -]
    #429133 - 10/18/01 04:37 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

>>A total of 400 civilian deaths have been confirmed. Personal testimony from fleeing refugees suggest hundreds more.

Yes, but who killed these people? My favorite was the Afghan they were showing on tv that was claiming that they US shot his son on the first night of bombings. Yet it's a Taliban controled area in the middle of the country(ie. it was unaccessable by helicopters at the time)... funny... isn't it. Another thing that I've noticed is that I've not seen any women or for that matter bodies on tv. I often watch the Portuguese news, which has been far more graphic than US/Canadian/British news and have yet to see bodies or women(have to love satellites and a wife that speaks Portuguese). If we're really hitting and killing people that are just citizens, you'd think we'd see more women. I know what you're going to say, but what about the children? Well the funny thing is we know they've been recruiting children... who's to say they're not using them and that they're not in the these training camps? I mean do they seriously not think that the missiles they fire into the air at US planes don't come back down and blow up just the same? Do you not think this happens? Have all of these deaths been confirmed to be from explosions from US missiles? And a better question, what about the hundreds of innocents that have been dragged from their homes and slaughtered because they didn't agree with the Taliban or the Northern Alliance?

The truth is in war, innocent people die. It sucks and no one wants it(well most people at least don't want it, either innocents killed or war for that matter).

As for igniting an explosive backlash... I wouldn't worry about that too much, at least not until governments become involved. So long as the US keeps it's target Afghanistan, they will be supported by other governments and they will to a certain degree keep the citizenry "in line(look at Araffat for example)." And you have to wonder why this was written by some one versed in "southern studies" and not a former military leader...


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


Edited by MokshaMan (10/18/01 03:21 PM)


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Offlinemadscientist
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: MokshaMan]
    #430161 - 10/19/01 05:04 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Although the figure of 400 is prolly exagerated (I would divide by five at least) the fact is missiles cannot be ordered not to kill civillians. They just cant seem to follow orders and have a nasty way of hitting the wrong thing, chinese embassies and refugee columns spring to mind. The US and UK have proffesional armies. Let them do what we tax payers pay them to do.

And Im not going to be drafted, Im trying out for selection in january so nyyaahh!


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Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: madscientist]
    #430394 - 10/19/01 12:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

It does not matter what number of killed civilians we are talking about.
It matters: a) It is uneffective war against real terrorism
b) citisens of US are now in war not realising what is going to hit them soon
c) citizens are blinded becaus goverment think they are going to win this war
d) with these attacks only more innnocent people will die (from both sides I hve to notice)
e) nobody looks how to solve this problem out
f) the US and puppet goverments are the real terrorists right now, IMHO off course
g) US citizens lost their right for NOTHING, cause the FBI wont be able to solve this shit anyhow
h) its happening the real polarisation in the world, again for nothing!
i) Bush, if he was clever guy ( oh I forgot he is not, and the dark force is holding him) he would politicaly substitute this war for REVENGE, with some less harm thing
j) go on and on, but I do not see any good reason wich could come trough this "war" on terrorism
k) even I live in far safer country then you guys do, I am really conserned about the our future!


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: madscientist]
    #430460 - 10/19/01 01:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"The aid workers said 10 civilians had been killed since the bombing began the night of October 7. The Taliban have claimed 70 civilians were killed in the city." from CNN plus several other news sites have been reporting the same thing. So divide by 7.(500/7=71-72, fewer than were killed in the Pentagon and a hell of a lot fewer than were killed in NYC) As for your signing up, good luck. I remember when the marines were calling me every other day... kind of glad I was never interested, although I'd have already finished my enlisted time by now had I signed up.

As for your claim that troops always follow orders and never kill citizens, I suggest you read up on both the Korean war and the Vietnam war(I'm sure there are other examples, but these are somewhat documented). Two wars where American troops killed and raped civilians, troops can have far more damaging effects than bombs. Bombs don't have opinions, aren't racist, don't rape, have no blood lust...


--------------------
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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OfflineElPrimo
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: MokshaMan]
    #431014 - 10/20/01 12:40 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"operation make things infinitely worse would be more appropriate. Or how about: operation help the terrorists get tthousands of new recruits?"

Ain't it the truth... Watch Bush and his cronies try to set up a permanent military base in Afghanistan... Bet that will make Russia and the neighboring Countries feel safe.... I really like that bit about Iran volunteering to help out any of our downed pilots... yeah, right...

I fly a lot. They now have National guard trops at all the airports carrying m-16s.. this week I had my carrying on bag searched at the Airport... went thru my shaving kit and took away my little itty bitty fingernail clippers.. No shit...

Tell you what, I'd feel a hell of a lot safer if the US quit supporting corrupt dictatorships in the Middle East where millions of people are without education, health care and food just so we can get cheap oil to drive our SUVs than by taking all the fingernail clippers away from American travelers...


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: ElPrimo]
    #431230 - 10/20/01 07:30 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Bush started this "war on teroorism" not just because of oil. US is the base for the richest clans of the world. They are usurers of the world, and they use american army in the same manner as mafia uses tough guys--terorists.
they have to teach everybody in the world that there is no play with them.
That is the reason why the millions of americans could easily die if this grows to high tech bio warfare.
Not just a fuel I tell you.
And the worst thing is that those clans are not too affraid of bio terorists cause they are going to have the best antibiotics, the best vacines etc....so they guess they are above the problems. But I way again ,they are wrong.
I hope american nation will realise this game , so they stop supporting the one who do not care about them at all.


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InvisibleLenore
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Registered: 01/31/00
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: Crobih]
    #431343 - 10/20/01 01:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

we're fucked unless we get into the streets and make our voices heard. The US government that is promoting this war is a sham! We didn't elect George W. the rigged polls in Florida, and the Aristocratic Supreme Court did. Just as our Democratic government only represents the minority of the Nation, so it also carries out the wishes of the minority in its bombings.

Operation Status Quo: Keep making the world a terribly dangerous and anti-political place to live.

as for the deaths in Afghanistan there have been many, 400 is a reasonable number, you cannot just drop payloads on crowded cities and expect a bloodless outcome. The absence of proof of casulties may be due to the fact that very few cameras are in the country now.

for those that don't know, this war is a war against Muslims, it is a war against the Arab race, the Anglo's objective is simple, revenge and the perpetuation of Power to make the world safe for economic growth in the north, retardation and exploitation in the south. by the way i am a whitey, it's just a little difficult to not recognize the the racial and religious divide this conflict has illuminated, almost the entire global south from Africa to Indonesia, and positively all muslims find the US-Brittish actions appallingly evil. and i do to.

we should recognize the US led actions for what they are: STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Registered: 03/13/01
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: Lenore]
    #431391 - 10/20/01 02:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

>> we're fucked unless we get into the streets and make our voices heard

No one will listen if you're going out into the street and having a big ol' party/carnival type feel to the march. I mean if you look like you're having a good time, why should you be taken seriously... Of course, it's your right here in the US to do that, so go have a blast if you want...

>> We didn't elect George W. the rigged polls in Florida

Bullshit! What proof do you have? Even Jesse Jackson's Rainbow group hasn't been able to find any real proof of this, and trust me if they could they would! Our voting systems weren't made to have close elections... it sucks but it's true.

>> the Aristocratic Supreme Court did

Actually they wouldn't have finished the count by Dec 12, which is what the Florida state supreme court decided, ie you have to be finished recounting by Dec 12. That means Bush would've won... perhaps it should have gone to the Senate instead of how it was decided. That doesn't mean the Supreme court made the decision, it just means the numbers at the time(by Dec 12) were in favor of Bush.

>> Just as our Democratic government only represents the minority of the Nation

I'm curious about this... what minority? The wealthy? Oh, of course because they're the only ones that get to vote... how could I be so stupid. It's no ones fault except those that don't vote, btw over 50% voted, therefore over 50% are represented... possibly not by who you voted for, but you're represented because you voiced your opinion. I didn't vote for Clinton, and for the most part thought he was one of the most racist(didn't even have an equal rights bill in Arkansas until 2 years after he left) ass holes(thought he was all the and a bag of chips, a great actor though) ever to be voted President, but he was MY president because he was in that office and I voiced my opinion.

>> 400 is a reasonable number

Why is this being disputed by people that represent UNICEF and other aid agencies in the country? If it were as bad as that, they wouldn't be disputing it. Plus, they're claiming 500 now(and as I said earlier 70 where others are claiming 10).

>> The absence of proof of casulties may be due to the fact that very few cameras are in the country now.

What about all the cameras that they had in to Jallalabad(sp?), why wasn't there a picture of one dead... there were animals that were dead, why weren't there people? What did it just kill animals? That's a hell of a smart bomb.

>> this war is a war against Muslims, it is a war against the Arab race, the Anglo's objective is simple, revenge and the perpetuation of Power

You're argument is so clear now... I see the light... What are you, an idiot? If you're going to make outlandish claims, at least give some proof. I mean I understand more the whole idea that it's about oil since one of the biggest fields ever has been found in the area of Afghanistan(I believ in Afghan, Uzbek, and Tajik; field is said to make oil fields in Middle East look like puddles) and both the US and Russia both want to build a pipeline.

>> little difficult to not recognize the the racial and religious divide this conflict has illuminated

So what, just because we're not the same race or religion, we have not right to defend ourselves? Well then why do people that aren't the same race or religion allowed to attack us, don't the know that's not allowed... seriously though, does this sound valid to you? It doesn't to me. One of the big problems is that most religions aren't tied to politics, Islam is an exception to the rule. This is why we have a seperation of church and state because we want to try to allow the greatest amount of freedom to its people. All this has done is illuminate the fact that many people are upset at the US for having greater wealth than they do, which is not really the fault of the US. If they should be pissed at anyone, it should be Europe since they absolutely raped most of the people's land, beliefs, cultures, resources, etc. The US was like many of these nations that dislike us, a colony of Europe. Just happened that the US got out from their control earlier.

>> we should recognize the US led actions for what they are: STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM

Umm, sure... had you said this about America helping the Columbians... I might agree, you didn't... had you mentioned the continual assitance of weapons to Israel... I might agree, you didn't(I'm sure there are more examples that you could give(the still continueing embargo on Cuba, allowing anti-Castro Cuban groups to continue operations in Florida, etc.)); you indicated this specific conflict, which is an attempt by the US to protect its citizens(and has been accepted by almost every governement(the people in the know) in the world). Simply because an ill informed citizenry from around the world are upset with the US, does not mean they fully understand or know what's going on. State sponsored terrorism indicates that the US would be targeting citizens... if the US wanted to target citizens we'd just flatten the country with A or H bombs. We're specifically trying not to target citizens, but the unfortunate truth of war is innocent people die.

BTW if you think Gore would be taking any different action than Bush, you're probably right. He would've had to have responded more forcefully, sooner or risk a backlash by the Republicans in Congress. This would have probably resulted in more violence sooner in these Islamic nations against the US. And probably less support around the world than we currently "enjoy."


--------------------
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: MokshaMan]
    #431540 - 10/20/01 05:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

you are prick


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OfflineElPrimo
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Registered: 09/29/01
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: MokshaMan]
    #431565 - 10/20/01 05:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"That doesn't mean the Supreme court made the decision, it just means the numbers at the time(by Dec 12) were in favor of Bush. "

Horse shit, there was plenty of time to count the votes. Bush ran to the USSC and got them to stop it. The Republican bench deliberately thru up road blocks to ensure that there would be delays and the count couldn't be done. The Florida elections was stacked by GOP thugs who charged the counting place and threatened the counters. A former FBI guy authorized GOP precincts to break the law for thousands of absentee voters, the State law allowing for a hand count of discarded votes was verturned, Black voters were discriminated against by a GOP circulated inaccurate list of 'felons', the punch ballot machines were predominantly in poor districts. GW's a liar, dummy and a cheat and worst of all a shill and puppet for selfish capitalist pigs with little heart.

The GOP may have gathered more millions than any time in history but a lot of people know that we have an illigitimate President. What's worse is that far too many people just figure every plitician is a cheat and a liar. Of course Republicans go around telling them this... then they set out to prove it. .


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Registered: 03/13/01
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: ElPrimo]
    #431581 - 10/20/01 06:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Go back and review the decision given by the Florida State Supreme Court, they even said that the absentee ballots should have been accepted. And they gave the date Dec 12. Go review the standard that was used and the count that continued after the Dec 12th date. You know what my favorite part about this is? Bush still won, using the standard endorsed by Gore. If your issue is that they didn't finish the count because of the supreme court's decision... hard to argue that they didn't say the count should stop, doesn't mean Bush did anything such as steal the election.

>> the punch ballot machines were predominantly in poor districts

Districts that were controled and run by Democrats... why the hell would Democrats help Bush?

>> W's a liar, dummy and a cheat

Gore's and W's grades were nearly identical in graduate school... so Gore must be just as dumb, probably dumber since W was also using hard drugs and was an alcoholic. Of course Bush's circulium was easier since he was studying business and Gore was studying law, but just the same their grades were remarkably similiar. As far as being a liar... probably, pretty much all politicians are. Cheat? No, you're thinking of Gore, I mean wasn't he the one who hired Daly(sp?)? Wasn't it Daly's grandfather that went to prison for voter fraud, for stuffing the ballot box(hasn't it also been suggested that Daly did this too, but couldn't be proven)? Oh, yeah he was... like father like son(or like grandfather like grandson). I mean Gore couldn't even win on the best economy ever enjoyed by the US, Gore lost the election for himself plain and simple.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: MokshaMan]
    #431844 - 10/21/01 12:07 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

when we put the number of "civilians" killed I put the number into the thousands...

Remember that just because a bomb hits its intended target dont mean that the place is filled with military personel... More than half of the strategic bomb drops were on targets with civilian employees... The airports alone had civilans travelers and workers. Then theirs the whearehouses that "we believe" are being used to store military supplys and the pharmacutical companies, the manufacturing plants, the telecomunications centers all of which have lots of civilian employees in them...

In fact the only places we have hit doing damage to their military has been actual military bases and empty terrorist training camps. But that has been only a small part of the bombings.

GabbaDj


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GabbaDj

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InvisibleLenore
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Re: Operation Infinite Disaster [Re: GabbaDj]
    #432754 - 10/22/01 12:01 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

MokshaMan or whatever
i find it ammusing that you found my post so inflamitory. reading your responce i could only imagine your furiously mad typing out of a responce.

anyway, lets not talk about who won the election, or how as we will never agree.
however your view of a pluralist USA controlled by the populace is false. Your view of the world is a false one bred in a long tradition of power over ideas and discourse. America has never been a plural sociey no matter what the currency says "E pluribus Unim" its false.
The 50%+ that voted in the last election and any other are insignificant in the choice of political power and direction. How can a 2 party system adaquitley represent a nation of infinate diversity. The public acts merely as a rubber stamp, the election is effectively over once the GOP and Dems have selected their cantidates, unless a 3rd party funded by a multibillionaire comes along. The public simply ratifies decisions made well in advance by those that run this nation, the rich.

Latin America, Indonesia, Iraq, Ethiopia, all are examples of US terrorism, look at what happened in the Phillipines during the Spanish American war, absolute Terror. I will not typify terror, demarcate between good(american) terror and bad islamic terror, it is all a horrible state that the greedy leaders of our societies have led us into.

My comments concerning the racial and religious divide were meant only as an observation, not a motive of hatred or war, although it commonly is.

and don't call me an idiot, i respect your opinions however misled and harmful i might feel them to be.


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