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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4198860 -

I don't understand. I can't see people giving this reaction to stories of dumping a Harry Potter book in the toilet, why should it be any different with any other work of fantasy?


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Respect my authority!

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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4199471 -

Here's the Red Cross confirming the Koran desecration story. They knew about it in 2002. I know you will not believe them. You will believe the military (who we already have photographic proof of their abuse of prisoners) and not the Red Cross. Can you explain why?

Washington Post

Quote:
Red Cross Says It Told U.S. in 2002 About Alleged Mishandling of Koran

By Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 20, 2005; Page A18

The International Committee of the Red Cross said yesterday that it repeatedly expressed concern to the U.S. government in 2002 and early 2003 about a series of credible detainee allegations that military guards at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba had mishandled and shown disrespect to the Koran.

Red Cross investigators documented what they considered reliable allegations of mistreatment of the Koran in interviews with detainees during visits to the prison, said ICRC spokesman Simon Schorno. The committee then forwarded its concerns in confidential reports to U.S. authorities and urged action.

"We raised the issues in our reports and verbally over a lengthy period of time. We talked to many detainees, not just one person," Schorno said. "For us, what's important is that the detainees' religion and dignity is respected."

The committee said the U.S. government responded with "corrective measures" in 2003 and the allegations ceased. In late January 2003, the Defense Department spelled out procedures covering the respectful handling of copies of the Koran. The written guidelines say that only Muslim chaplains or Muslim interpreters could touch the Koran, and they offer instructions on how to do it.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said that the agency received the ICRC reports but that there is no evidence they alone prompted the new policy. Whitman said the Pentagon has acknowledged cases of unintentional mishandling of the Koran, and he predicted yesterday that a new inquiry into such allegations would probably corroborate more cases.

It is unusual for the ICRC to publicize its findings because the organization believes it is most effective by investigating matters and advising governments confidentially.

In this case, Schorno said, the Red Cross believes the subject is already public because of the global controversy surrounding Newsweek magazine's retraction of a May 9 article that asserted that a government investigation had confirmed that a Guantanamo Bay guard had flushed a Koran down a toilet. The reported government confirmation, now withdrawn, sparked protests in Afghanistan and other countries and resulted in 16 deaths.

"Since these reports have become public in other channels, and because of their impact in Afghanistan and around the world, we decided we could report that we had brought this to authorities' attention and that our work had value," Schorno said.









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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Learyfan]
    #4199936 -

Several points in response --

-- Nowhere in that report does it mention that any detainees claimed the Koran was flushed.

-- The Islamoterrorists are instructed by their handlers to lie, lie, and lie some more at all opportunities, especially when it comes to claiming torture or any kind of abuse.

-- the ICRC is a terrorist supporting organization and hardly even close to unbiased. I have no faith in anything they publish.

-- to a fundamentalist Muslim, "desecration" of the Koran is to have the Koran touched -- yes, you read that correctly -- TOUCHED by a "non-believer". This is why at Guantanamo all prisoners are not only given Korans, the Korans are wrapped in special cloth so that the guards cannot by accident touch the surface of them.

-- there have been substantiated reports of detainees ripping pages from the Koran and using them to stop up toilets and cause flooding of the cells as a disruptive tactic. The detainess are nominally Muslim. More than one pundit has suggested that Newseek's anonymous source confused those reports with GUARDS flushing the Koran.






Phred


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4200038 -

The Red Cross supports terrorism? This I gotta hear.


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Silversoul]
    #4200051 -

Not the American Red Cross, the ICRC. Two very different organizations.



Phred


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4200357 -

So even after we've seen the abuse photos where the prisoners were forced to do things that were against Islamic law as well as being beaten up, you still act as if this could never happen.

I gotta hand it to you Phred, you are an extremely loyal person.







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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Learyfan]
    #4200410 -

Could it happen? Sure.

Did it happen? No one has provided credible evidence.

This whole "it might be true" mindset is the subject of the two cartoons I posted above. It is not correct for reporters of hard news to present as fact something which might have occurred, but to report on what did.




Phred


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: 1stimer]
    #4201161 -

1stimer said:
Quote:
The next time Bush systematically destroys an entire race, let me know.




Hitler didnt kill an entire race.
Quote:
The next time Bush has political competition killed or sent to concentration camps, let me know.



The neocons have tried to provoke violence against judges they disagree with.
Concentration camps=Gitmo.
Quote:
The next time Bush creates laws prohibiting whites from marrying other races, let me know.



Sounds a lil like amending the constituion so gays cant marry.



Hitler sure did his best to try to exterminate a race. For all practical purposes, he succeeded as well. He ridded Europe of most of it's Jews. Ask any Holocaust scholar and I guarantee you they'll tell you he achieved that goal.

About Gitmo, there is no way to even compare it with a Dachau or Auschwitz. You can't even begin to compare what is going on there with mass shootings or gassings.

Also, there was never an amendment made prohibiting gats from marrying.

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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4206977 -



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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4206980 -



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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4207188 -

First Garfield cartoon that's ever made me laugh


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Gijith]
    #4207257 -

Too true. I've never understood how that stupid strip got so big. It's unfunny. Always has been.

Calvin and Hobbes, on the other hand...





Phred


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4208124 -

I knew Garfield was Republican.





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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Learyfan]
    #4221591 -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/25/AR2005052501395.html?sub=AR


Quote:
Inmates Alleged Koran Abuse
FBI Papers Cite Complaints as Early as 2002

By Dan Eggen and Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, May 26, 2005; Page A01

Detainees told FBI interrogators as early as April 2002 that mistreatment of the Koran was widespread at the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and many said they were severely beaten by captors there or in Afghanistan, according to FBI documents released yesterday.

The summaries of FBI interviews, obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union as part of an ongoing lawsuit, include a dozen allegations that the Koran was kicked, thrown to the floor or withheld as punishment. One prisoner said in August 2002 that guards had "flushed a Koran in the toilet" and had beaten some detainees.

But the Pentagon said yesterday that the same prisoner, who is still in custody, was reinterviewed on May 14 and "did not corroborate" his earlier claim about the Koran.

"We still have found no credible allegations that a Koran was flushed down a toilet at Guantanamo," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said in a statement last night.

The newly declassified accounts, written primarily in 2002 and 2003, were released in the aftermath of an international uproar over a now-retracted story by Newsweek magazine, which reported that an internal military investigation had confirmed that a Koran was flushed down a toilet. Some administration officials have blamed the story for sparking riots overseas that left 16 people dead.

The disclosures came on the same day that Amnesty International released a report calling Guantanamo Bay "the gulag of our time" and labeling the United States "a leading purveyor and practitioner" of torture and mistreatment of prisoners. Amnesty and the Constitution Project, a legal advocacy group, made separate demands yesterday for an independent investigation into allegations of detainee abuse at U.S. facilities.

While detainees and others have lodged complaints of abuse at Guantanamo Bay, this is only the second major release of internal FBI memos on the subject. The accounts released yesterday by the ACLU consist of summaries of FBI interrogations of Guantanamo Bay detainees and therefore do not provide corroboration of the allegations.

Some captives said they witnessed mistreatment of the Koran. Three told FBI interrogators that they had only heard about incidents from other inmates, the records show.

Yet the interviews underscore that U.S. government officials were made aware of allegations of prisoner abuse and Koran mistreatment within months of the opening of Guantanamo Bay in early 2002, and echo allegations made by the International Committee of the Red Cross and a Muslim chaplain, as well as the detainees and their attorneys.

Pentagon officials said last week that they had not investigated claims of Koran desecration because they had not been presented with any specific or credible allegations of such activity. But they also said that they were reviewing allegations related to mistreatment of the Muslim holy book.

Whitman said in his statement last night that al Qaeda members have been trained to lie about their treatment during incarceration, and that officials at Guantanamo Bay have had "a great deal of sensitivity to the importance of the Koran and other religious items and practices and . . . extensive procedures were put in place to respect the cultural dignity of the Koran." In January 2003, the Pentagon issued rules for handling the holy book.

FBI officials said the interviews were conducted to gather intelligence, but the records show that dozens of prisoners volunteered allegations of abuse and complained bitterly that poor treatment was causing many to refuse to cooperate with interrogators. Numerous prisoners reported hearing plans for mass suicides, and another "asked agents to kill him."

Inmates Alleged Koran Abuse
One prisoner said he and other detainees had been "beaten, spit upon and treated worse than a dog" at Guantanamo Bay and added that military canine units received better treatment. Another prisoner complained about sexual assaults of other captives and said he believed the treatment "might create a new terrorist."

About a dozen of the FBI interviews included allegations that guards or interrogators at Guantanamo Bay either mishandled the Koran to outrage prisoners or engaged in religiously offensive behavior that included, in one instance, throwing a prisoner's prayer cap in the trash.

The records also include numerous allegations that guards or interrogators at Guantanamo Bay used sexually suggestive techniques designed to humiliate Muslim men. One said he was forced to stand naked in front of a female interrogator. Another said he was "touched sexually" by male guards.

The government has said two female interrogators at Guantanamo Bay have been reprimanded for sexually related techniques, including one for smearing ink on a detainee and telling him that it was menstrual blood.

The FBI records also include at least 19 separate allegations of beatings or other severe violence on the part of guards or others in control of the prisoners in Afghanistan or at Guantanamo Bay. One captive said he was kicked in the stomach, back and head by U.S. military personnel at an unknown location and suffered a broken shoulder.

"The evidence that there was systemic and widespread abuse of detainees in U.S. custody continues to mount and the government continues to turn a blind eye to this evidence," said Amrit Singh, an ACLU lawyer.

In releasing its annual report on human rights yesterday, Amnesty International called for an independent investigation into alleged abuse at U.S. detention facilities. Executive Director William F. Schulz asked for the prosecution of the "architects of torture policy" at the highest levels of the Bush administration.

"The refusal of the U.S. government to conduct a truly independent investigation into the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison and other detention centers is tantamount to a whitewash, if not a coverup, of these disgraceful crimes," Schulz said in a news conference at the National Press Club. He later called on foreign governments to investigate leaders such as Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld if the United States is unwilling to do so.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said: "The allegations are ridiculous and unsupported by the facts. The United States is leading the way when it comes to protecting human rights and promoting human dignity."

The Constitution Project, based at Georgetown University's Public Policy Institute, urged Congress to begin an independent investigation similar to the one conducted by the Sept. 11 commission to examine how abuse occurred and to develop policies to prevent such incidents.

Researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.









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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Learyfan]
    #4221861 -

Now the Washington Post wants to rub it in a little more. I guess they did not think there was enough bloodshed, rioting, and death from Newsweeks propaganda.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Learyfan]
    #4221880 -

GUANTANAMO BAY: THE REST OF THE STORY
By Michelle Malkin ? May 26, 2005 07:39 AM

Daily Kos and other liberal bloggers are claiming that newly-released FBI documents confirm Newsweek's allegations regarding Koran-flushing (see "FBI: Newsweek was right").

It should be obvious to anyone who so much as glances at the documents being cited that the FBI was reporting the statements of detainees rather than endorsing or validating those allegations. Immediately before describing the Koran-in-the-toilet allegation, the FBI notes the detainee's statement that "God tells Muslims to do a jihad against non-Muslims." Does Kos expect us to believe the FBI is endorsing that statement too?

Many detainees have made allegations of serious physical abuse as well as mistreatment of the Koran. Notwithstanding the MSM's "flood the zone" coverage, that's neither unexpected nor particularly newsworthy.

Are the detainees' complaints valid? Maybe some are. But the FBI documents heralded by Kos and others as evidence of abuse actually show that a significant number of detainees' complaints were either exaggerated or completely fabricated.

One detainee who claimed to have been "beaten, spit upon and treated worse than a dog" could not provide a single detail pertaining to mistreatment by U.S. military personnel. Another detainee claimed that guards were physically abusive and told detainees that U.S. soldiers were having sex with the detainees' mothers. Yet this detainee said he had neither seen any physical abuse nor heard these comments from the guards. Other detainees who complained about abuse of the Koran admitted they had never personally witnessed any such abuse, but one said he had heard that non-Muslim soldiers touched the Koran when searching it for contraband.

A number of detainees were concerned about relatively mundane issues such as lack of privacy, lack of bed sheets, being unwillingly photographed, the guards' use of profanity, and bad food (like "the zoo," said one critic). If lack of privacy or bed sheets is a detainee's main concern, it is doubtful that the detainee is being tortured (unless the definition of "torture" is so ridiculously broad as to be meaningless).

Several detainees indicated they had not experienced any mistreatment whatsoever at Gitmo, including one detainee who claimed he was mistreated at Kandahar prior to his transfer to Cuba.

One detainee disputed claims that guards had mistreated the Koran. The detainee said that riots resulted from claims that a guard dropped the Koran. In actuality, the detainee said, a detainee dropped the Koran then blamed a guard. (This detainee is apparently more skeptical of Koran-abuse allegations than the Washington Post, which neglected to mention this tidbit.)

In one case, Gitmo interrogators apologized to a detainee for interviewing him prior to the end of Ramadan, giving lie to the MSM portrayal of guards and interrogators as Koran-dropping, Koran-kicking, Koran-flushing, Islamophobic thugs.

Don't take my word for it. But don't take Kos's word for it either. Or the Washington Post's. Go read some or all of the FBI documents yourself and draw your own conclusions.

In the meantime, click on "Read More" to see excerpts from the FBI documents that won't be making headlines.

Update: INDC Journal reports on another prisoner-abuse scandal: "Breaking News: the entire Death Row population at the federal penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana testified, 'that the food is terrible and I'm 110% innocent. I swear. Hey, you wouldn't happen to have a smoke, would you?'"

Update II: Check out the new group blog "MediaSlander.com," dedicated to highlighting "bias, rumor and falsehoods that have been creeping into military coverage under the guise of objective news."

Link: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/002566.htm#002566

***********************************************









At the link are hotlinks to what she refers to, as well as images from the released FBI reports, so it is worth clicking the link and checking out her report thoroughly.

As she (and just about everyone else with an actual brain) points out, the Islamoterrorists are indoctrinated by their handlers to lie, lie, and lie some more -- especially regarding allegations of abuse. Their handlers are crazy but they aren't stupid -- they know the way to push the hot buttons of the MSM is to allege "torture", "abuse", "disrespect" and more. They are fully aware that the MSM will accept at face value any allegation made by an Islamoterrorist which might tend to show the US in a poor light while simultaneously treating any statements from the Pentagon or the White House as a tissue of lies.

Nope, prisoners never lie.




Phred


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4222618 -

lonestar2004 said:
Now the Washington Post wants to rub it in a little more. I guess they did not think there was enough bloodshed, rioting, and death from Newsweeks propaganda.



You're suggesting that we not report any wrong doing by the US.

Phred: Your article convinced me as much as mine did you. I realize that this can't be proven. However, I know these people and what they've done already. I believe that this has happened.





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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Learyfan]
    #4222803 -

You can believe whatever you want to believe. You have the luxury of doing that because you are not an editor of Newsweek.

And no, you don't know "these people". There's a large difference between Lyndie England and her ex-prison guard paramour and the officer corps of the US military.



Phred


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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: Phred]
    #4222863 -

Prisoner Recants Quran-Desecration Claims
By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer

Thursday, May 26, 2005

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/05/26/national/w120248D64.DTL





(05-26) 12:02 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --


A prisoner at Guantanamo Bay who complained that a military guard threw a Quran holy book in the toilet has since recanted the story, senior Pentagon officials said Thursday.


The prisoner, who made his complaint in an FBI interrogation in July 2002, is one of several quoted in newly released documents as saying that U.S. military personnel desecrated the Qurans of Muslim detainees at the prison.


Allegations of Quran abuse have led to heated discussion ? and even deadly demonstrations in Afghanistan ? since a Newsweek magazine report, later retracted, that U.S. officials had confirmed a Quran was flushed in a toilet.


"Their behavior is bad," one detainee is quoted as saying of his guards during an interrogation by an FBI special agent on July 22, 2002. "About five months ago the guards beat the detainees. They flushed a Quran in the toilet."


Lawrence Di Rita, spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, told reporters that U.S. investigators had re-interviewed the unidentified prisoner on May 14.


"He has said it didn't happen," Di Rita said. A day earlier the spokesman had said the detainee had not corroborated his original story when he was re-questioned, but on Thursday the spokesman went a step further.


"So the underlying allegation, the detainee himself within the last two weeks said that didn't happen," Di Rita said.


Another spokesman, Bryan Whitman, said the detainee "indicated, when asked about the desecration, that he was not knowledgeable of anything."


In a fresh disclosure Thursday, the ACLU released copies of an FBI document dated Nov. 25, 2003, that referred to "information concerning impersonation by (Defense Department) interrogators at Guantanamo representing themselves to be officials of the FBI and U.S. State Department."


Most of the rest of the document was blacked out by censors before it was released to the ACLU under the Freedom of Information Act.


FBI e-mails released to the ACLU last December had indicated that military interrogators had impersonated FBI agents, but this was the first time that impersonation of State Department officials was alleged.


Di Rita said this was being checked as part of a broader investigation of known FBI records on misconduct at Guantanamo.


The Pentagon has been under fire from a number of critics for alleged mistreatment of Muslims held prisoner at Guantanamo Bay since January 2002 and in Iraq and Afghanistan more recently. Di Rita insisted on Thursday that although investigations at Guantanamo Bay are not yet complete, it appears that many of the charges are groundless.


"Most of them are nonsense," he said, referring specifically to those related to alleged desecration of the Quran at Guantanamo Bay.


Di Rita said it was not reasonable to believe that U.S. guards or interrogators would intentionally abuse the Quran.


"As we understand it at the moment, we know that they have been extremely cautious, that the interrogators and the police are trained to know that this is a high-sensitivity issue so don't use it because it's too sensitive," he said. "And then what we're trying to determine is: Are there people who violated that? And so far we haven't been able to develop any chain of indications that would suggest that."


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Newsweek disavows Koran desecration report that led to riots [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4222903 -

prisoner recants story, but the MSM keeps on running it.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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