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OfflineLearyfan
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US military bases closing
    #4173752 - 05/14/05 08:28 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No one is talking about these military bases closing. Am I the only one surprised about this? Have we blown too much cash in Iraq, or what?


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050514/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/base_closings


Quote:

Base Supporters Prepare to Fight for Jobs By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 28 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Defiant communities around the United States are gearing up to fight a sweeping Pentagon plan to close scores of military bases, hoping to save the jobs, tax revenue and prestige that come with them.

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Their chances are not good, if previous base-closure rounds are any guide: About 85 percent of the Pentagon's recommendations have survived unaltered by an independent commission, which will scrutinize the list in the coming months before sending it to Congress and President Bush.

For Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, the proposed base closings and realignments are part of his plan to transform the military into a leaner, more cost-effective force. Once-distinct lines separating the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines are blurring. Tens of thousands of troops in Europe and East Asia are expected to come home.

Military missions once dispersed around the United States would be consolidated in larger, multipurpose installations. Dispersion was a defense against a Soviet nuclear attack; consolidation gives the military fewer places it must protect against terrorists. The military would also pull out of 12 million square feet of leased commercial space and head for relative safety behind base fences.

To some degree, the military would also move south and west, where land is cheaper and more available, and, as it happens, voters generally more Republican. Also closing are scores of small Reserve and National Guard facilities, part of a move to consolidate those forces.

Daniel Goure of the Lexington Institute, a private military think tank, called the closures announced Friday "mercy killings."

"The ones they did were truly ones on their last legs," he said. The Pentagon estimates the closures will save $48 billion over 20 years.

Among major moves:

_The submarine base at Groton, Conn., would close and send its attack subs to Norfolk, Va., and Kings Bay, Ga. The Pentagon predicted the move will cost the area 15,000 jobs, just under 10 percent of those in the local economy.

"We've invested millions of dollars in that base, but more important, the military has also made huge investments," Connecticut Gov. M. Jodi Rell argued in opposition. "You don't put $300 million into a base and walk away from it."

_The F-16 fighter planes at Cannon Air Force Base in Clovis, N.M., would be transferred to other bases around the country, and the dusty town on the Texas-New Mexico line would lose about 20 percent of its jobs.

"It would rip a big whole in eastern New Mexico to have Cannon closed," said Rep. Tom Udall (news, bio, voting record), the Democrat who represents the area. He and other New Mexico officials vowed to fight, selling Cannon to commissioners as a vital base situated in the middle of wide-open flying country.

_The B-1 strategic bombers at Ellsworth Air Force Base in Rapid City, S.D., would move to the other B-1 base, Dyess, near Abilene, Texas, taking thousands of jobs with them.

There was bitter resolve in Rapid City, jubilation in Abilene. "This is the first inning of an extra-inning game," said Pat McElgunn of the Rapid City Area Chamber of Commerce. In Texas, Republican Rep. Randy Neugebauer (news, bio, voting record) said: "The Abilene community has worked so hard for so long in support of Dyess. Today, we are seeing all that hard work pay off."

_The Army would close Fort Monroe, Va., built in the early 1800s on the site of various fortifications that date back to 1609, when the British erected defenses to protect the approaches to the Jamestown colony. Its main tenant, the Training and Doctrine Command, would be moved to Fort Eustis, Va.

_The venerable Walter Reed hospital in Washington would shift staff and services to the Navy's national medical center in nearby Bethesda, Md., to create a new, expanded facility with neither service's name attached. Other military medical functions would consolidate at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas, and at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.

Besides the 33 major bases that would be closed, 29 would shrink in size and lose 400 or more jobs. Four of those are Navy facilities in California, including Naval Base Coronado. Fort Knox, Ky., would not close but would lose 4,867 military positions while gaining 1,739 civilian jobs.

While the Pentagon plan calls for a net loss of 29,005 military and civilian jobs at domestic installations, some places stand to gain as positions at closed bases shift to posts that survive.

President Bush's home state of Texas could gain more than 9,000 military jobs, primarily in El Paso and San Antonio, even while losing four major installations and several smaller ones. Florida, where the president's brother Jeb is governor, would add 2,575 jobs overall while losing none of its bases.









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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4174325 - 05/14/05 01:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Have we blown too much cash in Iraq, or what?



Yes.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Autonomous]
    #4174452 - 05/14/05 02:13 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I know Iraq is a money pit, but do you really think that the war is why this is happening?







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OfflinePhred
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4175000 - 05/14/05 04:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Nope. This has been in the planning stages since the Clinton years. The thing is, it is politically a very unpalatable thing to do, which is why (as he did on so many other things) Slick Willie dragged his feet on it and left it for Dubya to handle. There are perhaps one or two more bases being closed now than had originally been planned due to the expense of conducting combat operations overseas, but it's a cast iron certainty that every single one of those bases knew their time was coming to an end. Any that are on that list now would have been closed anyway. The Cold War is over.

Having said that, I think it would have made more sense from a political point of view to close down at least some of the European bases first. Of course, that may still occur. It may very well be that several German bases will pack up and leave before the first base in the States does.




Phred


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Phred]
    #4175262 - 05/14/05 05:55 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
The thing is, it is politically a very unpalatable thing to do, which is why (as he did on so many other things) Slick Willie dragged his feet on it and left it for Dubya to handle.

Phred




Maybe it's a bit of both. Bush sure has put it off for a while. How much would you bet that Bush wouldn't do it if he didn't have to either?







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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4175272 - 05/14/05 06:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Phred's right. I remember back in the Clinton years when I heard that an air force base near me was going to get shut down, and that this was happening all over the country. I do agree it's stupid to do this in our own country when we could be doing it in other countries where we have bases, particularly in Europe. But I don't agree that this was deliberately left for Dubya to take care of(Clinton probably hoped Gore would succeed him). Shutting down a base takes time. There's a lot of logistics involved.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Silversoul]
    #4175360 - 05/14/05 06:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm definitely not against these bases closing. I'm also not saying Phred is wrong. I'm just saying maybe Bush would have put it off if Iraq wasn't digging in his pockets.

You're right about Gore. Clinton didn't intentionally stick Gore with anything negative.







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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4175370 - 05/14/05 06:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I'm definitely not against these bases closing. I'm also not saying Phred is wrong. I'm just saying maybe Bush would have put it off if Iraq wasn't digging in his pockets.



I really don't think so. The plans were already under way. He would've probably had to sign an executive order to stop it from happening.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4175400 - 05/14/05 06:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I remember earlier in this administration, Rummy talking about closing more bases in order to streamline the military. Yes, this was in the planning stages much earlier than the start of the imperial Iraq adventure. But then, the imperial Iraq adventure had been in the planning stages for some time before 9/11.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Silversoul]
    #4175610 - 05/14/05 07:23 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Fair enough.





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InvisibleJim
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4176017 - 05/14/05 09:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

everone is talking about the military base where I live. The base is 90% of the economy up here.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Jim]
    #4176609 - 05/15/05 01:04 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Besides the obvious cheap shots on Bush and the global war on terrorism, is anyone here against closing these bases?

I think it is a good thing. Nobody is willing to give this administration any credit. If he closes bases people will get their shots in. If he came out tomorrow and proclaimed that he canceled the base closings and offered to even expand the current capacity people would get their shots in.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4176622 - 05/15/05 01:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
Besides the obvious cheap shots on Bush and the global war on terrorism, is anyone here against closing these bases?



I'm certainly in favor of closing bases, but I think the ones we should be closing are the ones overseas. The military's job is providing for the national defense, not protecting regimes in other countries.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Silversoul]
    #4176642 - 05/15/05 01:21 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know if we are protecting regimes in other countries, but we are protecting those countries. Japan wasn't allowed to have an Army after WWII. We stayed in Korea because of the threat to them by China and North Korea. We stayed in Germany because of the threat to the USSR.

I would think we could pull out of Europe, at least mostly. We might have to keep some support in place for our current operation in Iraq. We fly many wounded and do various support activities from Europe.

And I believe we have pulled some troops from South Korea and Japan, and even taking those troops drew complaints about the administration for not properly handling Kim Il Sung. It doesn't matter what he does, he can't do anything right.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4176644 - 05/15/05 01:23 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not saying we should pull out of every country. I believe Korea is a special case. But we definitely should pull out of Europe(and at least some Middle Eastern countries) before we think about closing down bases on our own soil.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Silversoul]
    #4176766 - 05/15/05 02:06 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think we have pulled out of Saudi Arabia some time ago. Our base in Kuwait is involved in ongoing support for our men and women on the ground. I don't know what other middle eastern countries that we are in, but I would suspect that if we are anywhere over there right now those bases are useful to us because of our current operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I don't have the answers. You could make an argument that our forward bases are more valuable to defending our interests. You really can't help out South Korea, Japan, or Taiwan from Paducha Kentucky.

I am not a big fan of paying for everyone defense, or having all these bases. We need to have a long term plan that involves a phase out period. It isn't as simple as just getting up and leaving though. Japan has the second largest economy in the world, and they are the second biggest giver of international aid. They have a gross domestic product that is over 3 times the size of "mighty" China. Even little South Korea produces half the GDP of all of "mighty" China. Our efforts there have been successful. They have benefited us, the people in those countries, and even everyone in the entire world through the global economy. If North Korea could decimate those countries, and therefore their economies, you would see an economic shock wave the whole world over.

We live in a dangerous world, and the threats are very real. Make no mistake about it, you could wake up tomorrow and all our lives could be drastically changed by events that didn't even happen on American soil.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4177866 - 05/15/05 12:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Clark no likey.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/base_closings_clark


Quote:

Clark Criticizes Planned Base Closings By CARYN ROUSSEAU, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 45 minutes ago



LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark said Saturday that the Pentagon's plan to close military bases around the country and reorganize troops will isolate the military from the American people and the rest of the world.

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Clark said the plan to pull U.S. forces back home from abroad and centralize bases takes jobs away from smaller towns.

"We're losing influence abroad when we bring those troops home, and we lose the interaction with America when we create these super bases," Clark said in a speech to the Arkansas Associated Press Managing Editors Association.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has proposed closing 33 major military installations in the United States and reorganizing hundreds of others. Tens of thousands of troops in Europe and East Asia are expected to come home.

Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, are to testify Monday before a congressionally chartered commission that will review the proposal before sending it to President Bush this fall.

Clark, a former NATO commander who unsuccessfully sought the Democratic presidential nomination last year, said it worried him to see the military planning to close national guard armories. He said shuttering bases and moving jobs from smaller cities shatters an important connection between the military and civilians.

"Small communities lose sight of the armed forces," he said. "I like for the Army and the armed forces to be representative of the people they protect, not an elite organization."

Clark also voiced his concerns about Bush's nomination of John Bolton to United Nations ambassador, calling Bolton "somewhat of a bully."

"He's going to have a very tough time in the United Nations," Clark said. "When you come in with that much overhang, with all this reputation against you, it's that much more difficult. And all that's known in the United Nations.

"Personally, I don't like bullies," he added. "Just because you outrank somebody doesn't mean you don't respect them and their judgment."

Bush's nomination of Bolton was voted out of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Thursday but is unlikely to come before the full Senate before the end of May.










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OfflineBanJankri
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4178080 - 05/15/05 01:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

U.S just recently renewed their contract about their bases in Turkey.


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Offlinesnoopaloop53
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: BanJankri]
    #4178147 - 05/15/05 01:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

We are closing some of the bases in Germany, parts of the heavy infantry and armor units are going to start returning to Kansas. At least that's what some of their soldiers are saying.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: US military bases closing [Re: Learyfan]
    #4185262 - 05/17/05 04:24 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I know Iraq is a money pit, but do you really think that the war is why this is happening?










the govt is trying to be nice to the christ consciousness grid

good for them


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