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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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the holographic neocon...
    #4161802 - 05/11/05 02:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

and no..it doesnt mean a holographic image of ann coulter either...

at first it might sound ludicrous that something as obviously barbaric as neoconservatism would have some kind of underlying elegance...but OTOH..how could it be so successful if it didnt??...

two things i have noticed (and these are just my own personal observations) about neoconservatism are .. a) each aspect (political..religious..military..economic..etc) is one of a series of interdependant positive-feedback loops...b) each aspect contains the whole of neoconservatism...hence the title of the thread ..the name "holographic neocon" is of course derived from the concept of a holographic universe.. as an example..christian fundamentalism and camillian economics are in like the two fish in the aquarium from the first link...

more importantly..the holographic property also means that if any one part is implemented successfully..then all the others must follow in due course...it sounds crazy..but it perfectly explains why there is so little opposition to the neocon agenda..and why it apparently generates its own support..even from its victims...

to put it all in the proverbial nutshell..neoconservatism is a fully intergrated positive feedback system...its purpose is to create inequality as an end to itself..which is necessarily an intrinsic property of such a system..be it mechanical..electrical..or social...

but as ugly as the big picture is..one cannot deny that it is a very well-drawn picture..and that might also have some bearing on its popularity.. in some ways..it resembles a higher level of conscience and/or a higher form of life.. and this appeals to religion...

nevertheless..neoconservatism is still a human creation..and as such is not infallible...however..todays' left doesnt see the bigger holographic picture ..the environmental movement sees one fish..and the socialists see the other fish...the key to finding the achilles heel in karl roves' perfect beast is to think holographically..and see the two fish in the same tank...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4161807 - 05/11/05 02:40 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

*** no flaming please ***


Edited by MAIA (05/11/05 03:11 PM)


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OfflineDoom
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4161816 - 05/11/05 02:42 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

how is neoconservatism *barbaric* if its mandate is one of restraint?
piratic maybe...


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4161840 - 05/11/05 02:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

If you spent the time researching and analysing your ideas that you did trying to justify them, you might come up with some valid points.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Doom]
    #4161850 - 05/11/05 02:56 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Doom said:
how is neoconservatism *barbaric* if its mandate is one of restraint?
piratic maybe...




first of all..to clarify ..by "neoconservatism" i mean generically the current radical right-wing ideology..agenda..policies..etc of the bush administration and anything similar in other countries...

second of all..to answer your question..i wouldnt say the neconservative mandate was one of restraint so much as power as an end to itself..in which it has been more than barbaric...

third of all..thats not the topic of the thread...the topic is the holographic and positive feedback properties of neoconservatism...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4161854 - 05/11/05 02:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Anna: Can you honestly not tell the difference between a neoconservative, a paleoconservative, and a libertarian? All three would be likely to agree with Camilli's economic ideas, but would have very different ideas about social issues and foreign policy.


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OfflineDoom
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4161867 - 05/11/05 02:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Id say the neocons are compensating for americas current economic weakness by showcasing its military might.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4161921 - 05/11/05 03:15 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Anna: Can you honestly not tell the difference between a neoconservative, a paleoconservative, and a libertarian? All three would be likely to agree with Camilli's economic ideas, but would have very different ideas about social issues and foreign policy.




im glad you asked that question..since many backers of such economics earlier on were paleoconservatives and libertarians..and i very much doubt a libertarian would find bush&co very palatable...my point is that them pushing it through might very well have led to neoconservatism later on..whether or not they intended it...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Doom]
    #4161922 - 05/11/05 03:15 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'd say it's more a matter of causation than compensation, i.e. our current economic weakness is caused largely by flexing our military might.


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OfflineDoom
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4161932 - 05/11/05 03:18 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

there are other factors, poor corporate performance, trade deficit, foreign competition, etc.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4161933 - 05/11/05 03:18 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Anna: Can you honestly not tell the difference between a neoconservative, a paleoconservative, and a libertarian? All three would be likely to agree with Camilli's economic ideas, but would have very different ideas about social issues and foreign policy.




im glad you asked that question..since many backers of such economics earlier on were paleoconservatives and libertarians..and i very much doubt a libertarian would find bush&co very palatable...my point is that them pushing it through might very well have led to neoconservatism later on..whether or not they intended it...



Neoconservatism has its roots in the Cold War. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, America found itself to be the sole remaining world power. Some people believed we should take advantage of this to spread American values and democracy through our military might. These people are now known as neoconservatives.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4162201 - 05/11/05 04:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Neo-conservatives are former leftists who got religion and turned nationalistic (if they weren't already). Politically, they have more in common with Trotsky than they do with traditional conservatives (such as Barry Goldwater)


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Autonomous]
    #4162361 - 05/11/05 05:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not entirely sure what makes neoconservatism more interdependant on various ideas than any other political movement. Communism, libertarianism, etc... all have clear agendas in a variety of areas, in ways that often depend on one another. What makes neoconservatism so special?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Phluck]
    #4164200 - 05/12/05 12:10 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

karl rove...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4165201 - 05/12/05 04:16 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

2004's sexiest man, I'd say.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinejcldragon
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: Phluck]
    #4165383 - 05/12/05 08:12 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

At the heart of Neo-Conservativism is the notion that "Might makes Right". It is all about obtaining & maintaining power over people at any cost, and by any means. It is a philosophy of naked greed. Since moral considerations are irrelevant to Neo-Cons, they have no qualms about saying anything to the public which they figure will further their aim, which essentially is a feudal society in which the most powerful make all of the decisions for the rest of society.

They cloak this by pushing a 'religion' which is based on the idea that God rules the Universe like an Emperor sitting on a throne... a War God with an insatiable lust for power & subservience, who actually is just a reflection of all of the worst qualities that you can find in human beings. Greed, Wrath, & Ignorance are the three things that make the Neo-Con world keep spinning.

It is a philosophy of exploitation, plain & simple. It is all about taking, instead of creating. There is nothing even remotely Conservative about it. The Conservative philosophy emphacizes personal responsibility & preserving resources : fiscal responsibility, small government, individual initiative, and Conservationism. You'll see none of that in the policies of the Neo-Cons.

um... I would have expected this thread over in the Political forum...


--------------------
The Soul exists simultaneously throughout all of Time.
The Ego merely exists now.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: jcldragon]
    #4165825 - 05/12/05 11:30 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, an important facet of neoconservative thought, like you pointed out, is the idea that leaders in soceity should bring the masses to some nationalistic, moral golden age - and if lying accomplishes this, so be it - just like Plato's "Noble Lie" and just as cynical and full of contempt for those not in power.

anyone else see the power of nightmares? Torrents for this 3 part BBC documentary about Islamists and the Neoconservatives are widely available on the net.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: the holographic neocon... [Re: jcldragon]
    #4167158 - 05/12/05 05:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

At the heart of Neo-Conservativism is the notion that "Might makes Right".




and to illustrate synergism..the religious fundamentalists will in turn argue the converse that "right makes might".. ie that its the will of god...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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