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InvisibleSilversoul
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Is revolution impossible?
    #4159300 - 05/10/05 10:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm taking a class right now called "War in Literature and Film." While we mostly discuss how war is portrayed in certain writings and films, we also discuss plenty of other issues having to do with war. Today, the professor let us bring up any topics we haven't discussed so far.

I asked the class under what conditions they would take up arms against their own country. They looked at me like I had two heads. I find it interesting(yet sorely disappointing) that such a question gets such an astonished response today, yet our founding fathers were willing to do it over an issue as simple as taxation without representation. What would it take? It saddens me to say that I could easily see the way being paved for the rise of a dictatorship. If people are not willing to fight for their freedom, then they will surely submit to slavery.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4159628 - 05/10/05 11:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Revolution is possible.


The problem today is, our media has made the American public into blind sheep.


It will have to take a major FUBAR by the Goverment for the spark it needs.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4159651 - 05/10/05 11:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It's a long, slow, and seemingly uneventful march towards tyranny and dictatorship. I doubt many people ever realize what is happening, until the noose is around their neck.

So it will take that noose, closing around our collective necks, to prompt any action.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4159660 - 05/10/05 11:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Something scary about the US is that there have been no revolt not even a small one like most country's have had. the closest thing was the LA riots and that was about tv's and radios :crazy:


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Registered: 05/10/02
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: trendal]
    #4159667 - 05/10/05 11:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Sad, but true.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: niteowl]
    #4159679 - 05/10/05 11:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Im so sick of the "everyone is stupid but me" argument. The reason why there is not a violent revolt in the US is because most people in the US are happy.

As hard as it is for you to believe, most people in the US have decent jobs where they make a decent amount of money to provide for themselves and their families. People are not as stupid as you think. Most of them just want to work for a living and have enough left over to enjoy the limited time they have. They realize that there will never be a utopia where everyone gets everything for free and they are content with working hard to achieve their goals. As long as they have that opportunity in the US, they will be content.

To mock them by calling them "sheep" while you commence your armchair revolution is hypocritical at best.

I find it funny that you all speak of revolution but you wouldn't dare try to start one yourself. Instead you resort to calling other people names for not doing what you yourself are too pussy to do.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Autonomous]
    #4159688 - 05/10/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What's sad is when I talked about how I would take up arms against the government if they postponed elections indefinitely, everyone kept saying how our government would never do such a thing, or that the people would never stand for it. Denial is a scary thing.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Registered: 05/10/02
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4159703 - 05/10/05 11:56 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I wonder how many Germans in pre-Nazi Germany would have admitted that what was going to happen was possible for their country.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4159716 - 05/11/05 12:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What would it take?

The current US population and most definitely government is build upon apathy.

What is the average IQ? 100.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/

? When asked to find 10 specific states on a map of the United States, only California and Texas could be located by a large majority of those surveyed. Both states were correctly located by 89 percent of the participants. Only 51 percent could find New York, the nation's third most populous state.

As much as I despise the US's blatant violation of the Constitution and its violation of our natural rights I understand the mentality of an average US citizent. Out of ten people from varying sociopolitical groups how many would you imagine could state any two Constitutional rights or at the very least could define two Constitutionally defined state's rights? People have become appathetic in the states. Not because they have it so well but rather because they have it good enough. At least twice a week I hear "It's not my money" and yet people don't realize that "government" isn't (or at least shouldn't be) some monolithic corporation but rather a service of the people. It isn't "not my money". No, it is your money and someone you don't know is spending your money.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: cb9fl]
    #4159746 - 05/11/05 12:09 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Again, you bring up IQ, seemingly to imply that most american's IQ scores are lower than yours and that is why the american government is in an unacceptable state to you.

If you aren't going to do something about it, then don't stoop to insulting other people for not doing anything about it. Do you just expect someone else to take action so you don't have to? Maybe its your mentality that is really responsible for the lack of action...ever consider that?


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Registered: 05/10/02
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Catalysis]
    #4159932 - 05/11/05 12:56 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I can't speak for cb9fl, but all tests I have taken since high school have placed me in the 99th percentile. One thing is for certain, I am better at taking those tests than 99 percent of the other test takers. Whether this translates into being 'brighter' than most Americans is a matter of opinion. However, I do live better than the majority (if income and place of residence are any kind of yardstick) without cheating, lying, stealing or violence - all of which the majority of American voters are not adverse to supporting by proxy through the electoral system.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4160097 - 05/11/05 01:26 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Many things are possible...

The greater question should is: Is revolution necessary? What will push a society over the edge, how complacent can a people be, to what end will they allow themselves to be sold silly notions of war, and trite issues of equality when they don't give the same respect across the board?

I for one don't think that it is necessary within the confines of the current system, however, a hell of a lot could be done to improve a society for all it's people by such simple measures such as; abolishing the electoral college give people full say as to who will lead them, abolish current drugs laws and enact licensing systems and other measures to enforce accountability and awareness, true separation of church and state where laws aren't motivated by what Jebus or Allah or Buddha etc... preached, instead have more laws based in objectivity in terms of the effect they have on society.


These are just a few of the many things that could be implemented to make any society better. However, it's doubtful that any of them will occur.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4160211 - 05/11/05 01:50 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Revolution?

Impossible.

Why? Because we get to vote every 4 years, and therefore people believe they can Revolt when needed. Or, at least, enough people believe that to keep us safe from revolution for a while.

Civil war?

Possible.

And if you feel like being picky, you could say the last Civil War was a failed revolution.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Catalysis]
    #4160225 - 05/11/05 01:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
To mock them by calling them "sheep" while you commence your armchair revolution is hypocritical at best.

I find it funny that you all speak of revolution but you wouldn't dare try to start one yourself.  Instead you resort to calling other people names for not doing what you yourself are too pussy to do.





Have you any idea of what I have done to make a change?


I don't think so.



When I speak of blind sheep I'm talking about the people who "just want to work for a living and have enough left over to enjoy the limited time they have."

These are the very people that are going to sit by and let their government take their rights away one by one and never say anything about it for fear of loosing their comfy nest egg.




I tried to get people to take responsibility for the shitty condition their/our workplace had gotten. Many major issues needed to be addressed.....but no one would speak up for fear or retaliation. Even after I stood up in a company meeting and brought the issues out in the open. Not one person would stand up and say "Yes, I saw that happen." or "Yea, he's right"....not one single person out of 60-80 people........

sheep



They just sat there in their chairs scared out of their mind. The lead-men/supervisors were very upset w/me. They desperately wanted me to sit down and shut up......

sheep


Scared SHEEP who don't want to rock the boat.


So yea, I have tried to get some changes made in my world. And suffered the consequences from it too.


So you might want to think about what you say before you say it.

:peace:


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4160253 - 05/11/05 01:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

For 2-3 generations Americans have enjoyed being the richest and most productive economy in the world. We are spoiled in comparison to the rest of the world. 150 years of land grabbing up until half way through last century has given every man the possibility own his own piece of land in this relatively sparsely populated, but enormously wealthy, nation (in relation to most other industrialized ones). I think most people are pissed of with the way our government is but are still happy with their lives, as Catalyis has stated. Living Rome has perks so...when in Rome.

However, in the decades to come our place in the world will have multiple threats from different states against our supremacy. As our position becomes less ensured we will find our countrymen a little more invested in their government that's been on autopilot. Also as catalysis said, as long as opportunity for each individual is ripe the government will do as it pleases as the masses will enjoy the fruits of their position in the world.


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Catalysis]
    #4160272 - 05/11/05 02:02 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Catalysis,

Please argue about the issue, rather than take personal shots at a Shroomery member.

That's your warning.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4161323 - 05/11/05 11:40 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If people are not willing to fight for their freedom, then they will surely submit to slavery.

Bullshit. You've been reading too much revolution era propaganda.

A revolution requires an enormous segment of the population united for a single cause; in other words, a bunch of brainwashed thugs.

As the education of the average person improves and a more diverse set of ideologies takes hold, it becomes much more difficult to rally people together with a bunch of rhetoric. You end up with tons of objection from others, and even within your own groups.

I can't think of a society I'd like to live in that recently had a violent revolution, and with the current intellectual climate in the US, I can't imagine a violent revolution doing anything but degenerating into years of unrest with dozens of differing groups trying to push their own ideals.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: niteowl]
    #4161438 - 05/11/05 12:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

When I speak of blind sheep I'm talking about the people who "just want to work for a living and have enough left over to enjoy the limited time they have."

What the hell does that even mean? What kind of categorization is that? It makes no sense whatsover. Please expound on this so we have a better idea of who a sheep actually is, because there are people out there that work, make money, spend that money, and want to enjoy whatever time they have left on earth. That doesn't mean they are without a strong grasp of their rights and being concerned with perserving them.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Rose]
    #4161448 - 05/11/05 12:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Catalysis,

Please argue about the issue, rather than take personal shots at a Shroomery member.

That's your warning.


Incredibly weak. Stereotyping an entire nation is OK. But pointing out the flaws of elitism is wrong.

If you followed the posts, it was easy to realize he wasn't attacking the member, but the thought process of someone who condemns others.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Is revolution impossible? [Re: Phluck]
    #4161465 - 05/11/05 12:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
If people are not willing to fight for their freedom, then they will surely submit to slavery.

Bullshit. You've been reading too much revolution era propaganda.

A revolution requires an enormous segment of the population united for a single cause; in other words, a bunch of brainwashed thugs.

As the education of the average person improves and a more diverse set of ideologies takes hold, it becomes much more difficult to rally people together with a bunch of rhetoric. You end up with tons of objection from others, and even within your own groups.

I can't think of a society I'd like to live in that recently had a violent revolution, and with the current intellectual climate in the US, I can't imagine a violent revolution doing anything but degenerating into years of unrest with dozens of differing groups trying to push their own ideals.




Keep in mind that a majority of americans are ignorants and would take up arms with sports teams if it was possible.


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