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OfflineGrizzy
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Registered: 03/26/04
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Charles Manson, the family, and LSD...
    #4043683 - 04/12/05 02:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We went to the Barker Ranch this weekend.
Cool place. After stories and (of course) checking around the crannies for any hidden Manson doses, the girls were too scared to stay the night there. But we came across a couple of old guys out in the desert that started telling us stories.

I'm wondering what/if any - stories you guys might have about the Manson family, LSD, and the desert?



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"You already know everything, it's just a matter of time before you remember..."


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Grizzy]
    #4043917 - 04/12/05 03:54 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

What did these old guys say?





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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InvisibleBurke Dennings

Registered: 11/29/04
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Grizzy]
    #4043949 - 04/12/05 04:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Didn't the the Manson "family" live at the Spahn Ranch?


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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #4044015 - 04/12/05 04:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Good luck with finding hidden doses. Although Im sure they had a hand in every psychadelic, I think the Manson family's drug of choice was Datura/brugmansia.


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InvisibleThin White Duke
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #4044054 - 04/12/05 04:34 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Explains it all.


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InvisibleBurke Dennings

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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #4044131 - 04/12/05 04:57 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PsillyNilly said:
Good luck with finding hidden doses. Although Im sure they had a hand in every psychadelic, I think the Manson family's drug of choice was Datura/brugmansia.




According to 'Helter Skelter', it was mostly acid that they used.


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OfflineFrappy
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #4044352 - 04/12/05 06:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Thomas Lyttle interviews Albert Hoffman and Hoffman asks Lyttle a question..

"One of the first things he asked me about was Charles Manson," Lyttle recalls. "He asked me if I knew if it was true that Manson had used LSD to brainwash his cult members and whether they actually committed murders while they were tripping on LSD. I told him it was absolutely false. The Manson family members, most of the time, had used datura and other drugs used for zombie preparations in Haitian voudoo."

This was a great relief to Hoffman, who in his books has repeatedly referred to LSD as "my problem child."

http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2005-01-27/news/feature.html


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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Frappy]
    #4044368 - 04/12/05 06:28 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Dont know who Helter Skelter is but acording to by knowledge about Manson, the drug of choice to "manson" delerium was Datura...LSD was passed around Im sure as well like it was regularily in that time period but the drug used for the trances, brain washing and Manson Rituals was Brugmansia. This was before my time so I may be wrong, nevertheless, I dont think it made much of a difference. He knew how to seduce youung minds and was a nut ball regardless.


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InvisibleThin White Duke
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #4044391 - 04/12/05 06:47 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Helter Skelter is a book about him.


(yes, and a song...)


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Thin White Duke]
    #4044463 - 04/12/05 07:33 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Helter Skelter isn't about Manson. It was just a song Manson thought held some meaning for some of the stuff he believed.


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: barfightlard]
    #4044659 - 04/12/05 09:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Helter skelter is a book about manson aswell as a Beatles song that manson liked like someone above has already said.


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-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Grizzy]
    #4047915 - 04/12/05 11:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Thats awesome! I've never known anyone besides myself and my buddy who's been there!  I've been there half a dozen times at least.

Which direction do you come from to get there?  I usually come in from the East (Death Valley side), past the talc mine, through Stripped-Butte valley (usually spend the night there at Anvil Springs), and then into Goler wash where the Barker ranch is.  Then I continue on out into Panamint Valley and head up to Panamint Springs for a beer! :grin:

I've spent countless nights 4-wheelin and camping all over that area.  I love it over there!  I could tell stories all day long.  Its cool to see I'm not the only one who likes to go to remote areas! :thumbup:


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You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Grizzy]
    #4048076 - 04/13/05 12:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The manson ranch is still standing? Nobody has burned that fucker down yet? That surprises me.. You can just go there and spend the night free of charge?


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Thin White Duke]
    #4048147 - 04/13/05 12:52 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Helter Skelter is a fucking bad ass song.  Fucking bad ass. 

When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again. :rockon:


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_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
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Offlinepantsboy
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Noviseer]
    #4048540 - 04/13/05 02:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Didn't they make that shit into a movie too?


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Acid doesn't hurt when you're on fire. :frown:




"Mushrooms are only similar to penises in their appearance." - LeBron James (2013)

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"Bus squelching is not to be laughed at."


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OfflineGrizzy
Explorer of mindand matter

Registered: 03/26/04
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Noviseer] * 1
    #4048642 - 04/13/05 02:49 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Alright, being good to me deeds, I'll answer everyone:

LearyFan:  I'll finish this post with the stories we heard.

Electrode:  Yes, they did.  Until the first bust.  They moved out to the desert and stayed at this very ranch.  This is, in fact, the very spot where they were finally busted and Manson taken in.  He was caught in a little cupboard(3'x2'), and the cop spotted him only by his hair hanging out(ha!).

Psillynilly:  I think you are totally right.  Datura is a very common plant to that desert.  I actually came across Datura while researching the desert for our trip, it's how I found it, so to speak.

bellyyard:  "Helter Skelter" was a song by the Beatles, used by Manson to describe the "final war" between the whites and the blacks.  This "war" is what he wanted to jump-start and encourage.

mattzdope:  Yes, it's standing.  No, nobody has burned it down.  And YES - you can stay there the night, or more nights, for free(I think the limit is 2 weeks).  There is even a little food in the fridge and cupboards for you.  These things are actually quite common for our trips.  We come across, and stay in, many cabins out in the back country.  Sometimes, they are life-savers.  Nice warm stove in the middle of a snowstorm is a welcome thing.  You gotta hunt them down and make sure they are not private.

ToTheSummit - right on dude!  This kind of adventure is ALL the wife and I do, all the time.  We go everywhere, too.  If you ever find yourself in CA, let me know and I probably have a secret spot or two nearby.  You should stop on by and see us sometime we're out.  We usually have steaks on the grill, and share with people that have good manners.  :wink: 
To answer your question, we came in through the west side, up the canyon.  Before that, we came in over the mountain to the west of that from Trona Pinnacles(see pic), staying a night up Isham Canyon, then ending up going down through Fish Canyon and down the "Escape Trail" before going up the canyon to Charlies place.  Here's a shot of the canyon, and a couple desert views.

Trona Pinnacles:


Drive into desert:


Drive into lakebed before Charlie Cabin canyon:


And the drive up the canyon to the ranch itself:



So then, back to the stories I've heard.  Keep in mind, I am aware of the following things while hearing this stuff:
FACT:  Charles Manson has recieved and continues to recieve the most mail out of any inmate in history.  To this day, his fans are so crazy that not 4 days go by without a new letter.
LOGICAL DEDUCTION FROM FACT:  If you have fans and a following like that - it would not be unreasonable to assume that some of them embrace his ideas and would perhaps like to visit a place where he was, especially if it is open to the public.
FACT:  Out of the twenty-so members of the "family", only 4 are doing time in prison.
LOGICAL DEDUCTION:  What about the rest?  I would imagine that some would try and live a normal life, some disappear.  But I also imagine that some are still "into" it.  And I imagine that some may still live nearby.

Now then, here come the stories...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
STORY#1:  We come across a few old guys camping out in the desert, nearby our campsite just outside the Barker Ranch area.  Stopped our trucks by their camp to say hi.  Scruffy guys, about 55-65 old each of them(total three).  Two came up and talked.  One sounded just like John Wayne.  My "spidey-sense" told me they were ok, so we told them to stop by our camp later.  They did.  And I'm glad.

He told us that most of his friends refuse to stay the night at that ranch.  He's talking about them being scared staying anywhere on the property, not just inside the actual cabin.  I'm like, "Jeez, you are all wusses!"  He told me to hold on.  He went on to say that one time, he stayed there in a tent outside(that's as brave as they got).

(Now, you have to understand that up to this point, I had thought that everyone was scared of any "ghost" type of stuff, you know?  Like the place was haunted, whatever.)

And this is where he tells me why they don't stay there...  "You stay there, you just might get some visitors in the middle of the night."  YIKES!  He's talking about "followers" that stop by to pay their respect to Manson, and to check the place out...in the middle of the night.

(Now, I'm thinking..."okay, that's kinda creepy, but even so"  I could probably hear a truck coming, see the lights, be aware of their approach, and have enough time to be prepared to meet the threat with the equalizers I possess)

I say to the guy "What - you mean his crazies will come up and try to mess with us?  What if we keep our eyes open for them?"

To this he laughs.  I wonder why.  He says "Because you will never see or hear them coming.  They come in over the mountain, on bare feet.  Silent.  Probably on drugs, too."

(probably on meth...)

"Holy smokes", I say, "No way!".  He finishes his story and tells me how when he got up in the morning, all around the tent there were human footprints.  Bare feet.  Everywhere.  No tire tracks coming in or out, and none of his party of 4 had their shoes/boots off, let alone danced all around their campsite in the middle of the night.

He said that was all it took for them never to camp there again.  Keep in mind his tent was crappy, and they didn't appear to have money or wealth.  Since the killings in the old days targeted the people that had "more" and didn't respect the Manson, I wonder how the common person would be dealt with if found camping at the Manson place, and deemed guilty of disrespect by some "follower"...

The old man went on to tell us about how followers and fans constantly come through that area, and even asked me if had sufficient "weaponry" just in case.  I nodded yes, and that was that.
-----------------------------------------------------
Next story takes place in Ballart, a little ghost town just north-west of that Barker Ranch.  The population is 1.  The only man that lives there is the very subject of this story. 
We stop by this little ghost town on our way out.  In the general store shack, there is a guy with what appears to be a glass eye.  Blue and opaque in the middle.  He talks and acts a little like the guy in the movie "Slingblade".
He didn't talk a whole lot, but when we probed him about the Barker Ranch, he did tell us that there are even annual gatherings at the ranch by people that religiously get together there and celebrate.  He even says that some of the actual family members revisit it and go to these gatherings.  He says, "You know, they didn't catch all of them..."
I asked him if he's ever met any.  "Sure, they come through here sometimes."
I asked him if they've ever attacked anyone or anything like that.  He said, "Not that I know of..."
And when I said that's it's kinda nuts and all, he responded with "uh-huh" in a low rubmle, just like slingblade.

And with that, the wife tugged my arm as if to go.  And off we went, to the next adventure...


--------------------
"You already know everything, it's just a matter of time before you remember..."


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Grizzy]
    #4049260 - 04/13/05 08:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

nice post Griz

---

My Aunt and Uncle have a Winter place in Pahrump, Nevada.

I guess there is a cave there in Pahrump that the manson family went to.
they stayed there and they drew stuff inside the cave.
it is suppose to have this really evil feeling there inside the cave.


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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InvisibleThin White Duke
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: barfightlard]
    #4049303 - 04/13/05 08:22 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bellylard said:
Helter Skelter isn't about Manson. It was just a song Manson thought held some meaning for some of the stuff he believed.




I know.


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Invisiblephalloidin

Registered: 07/03/04
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: Grizzy]
    #4050705 - 04/13/05 03:54 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

cool story. Thats some pretty creepy stuff. I sure as hell wouldn't camp out there.


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OfflineGrizzy
Explorer of mindand matter

Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 263
Loc: Bay Area, CA - USA
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Re: Charles Manson, the family, and LSD... [Re: phalloidin]
    #4051038 - 04/13/05 05:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, and incase it's not obvious - YES - shrooming out there was AWESOME!


It totally felt like another world. The dry lake beds indeed had water in them. And the best part was the incredible wind. We had to run sideways to stay up. I was able to "lay down" standing up. What a trip. Imagine leaning forward and not falling, just from the wind. The whole experience was awesome. I wasn't shroomin' balls, but was taking little by little the whole time. Stars at night and open desert by day.

My idea of LIVING LIFE.


--------------------
"You already know everything, it's just a matter of time before you remember..."


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