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OfflineAzure
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Rye berry problem
    #404112 - 09/25/01 11:04 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I have a fundamental problem with rye berries-they never recover after being fully colonized and spread out on a pan to be cased. I've never had this problem with BRF/Vermiculite. These are isolated and vigorous strains. I lay the spawn out evenly into a sterilized pan and spray the spawn with diluted H2O2. The spawn is broken up with my hands after I sterilize it with isopropyl alcohol. I then cover it with saran wrap and let it incubate at 78-80 degrees F.
After the first day, the spawn smells mushroomy and there's no sign of bacterial infection. There's also no sign of recovery, unlike the BRF substrate spawn. After about 4 days, the spawn shows slight signs of fuzzyness, but a hint of bacteria can be detected. After a week, the bacteria takes over and weakens the spawn. Moulds soon follow.
my rye berries are soaked a day before sterilization in a pressure cooker. The pint jars are half way filled and pressure cooked at 15 psi for 45 minutes. The moisture level is optimal as noted by the vigorous colonization of the mycelium. I'm completely baffled and I've NEVER been able to get this rye berry spawn to recover, unless it was mixed with dung. However, I only suceeded with the latter case once...Any ideas are welcome.



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InvisibleCLuB99
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: Azure]
    #404151 - 09/25/01 11:20 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Stamest recomend 1 hr minimum, for very clean rye, as the one he sells.
I cook my birdseed for 1.30 hrs. rye for 2.15, but i live also at 2500 meters...

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InvisibleCLuB99
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: Azure]
    #404164 - 09/25/01 11:26 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

anyway if i was at 0 sea level i would cook for at least 1 hour..

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: Azure]
    #404404 - 09/26/01 02:15 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

>I lay the spawn out evenly into a sterilized pan and spray the spawn with diluted H2O2.
No need for spraying here. You make it too wet, optimum grwing ground for bacteria.

> The spawn is broken up with my hands after I sterilize it with isopropyl alcohol.
Still many bacteria remain on the hands. Shake the grain up and pour it into try then level it with a clean, sterilized spoon. Don?t touch it.

>The pint jars are half way filled and pressure cooked at 15 psi for 45 minutes.
As Club99 said, PC for 1 hour.

Good luck!


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InvisibleNDK
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: Anno]
    #404538 - 09/26/01 07:48 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Also, what is your definition of fully colonised?



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OfflineAzure
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: NDK]
    #405394 - 09/26/01 10:23 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Thanks everyone! Fully colonized means the mycelium has covered every single rye berry before I take it out of the jar and break it up. I'm 300 ft. above sea level, so the desired temperature is pretty much reached at 15 psi...
The problem I have with sterilizing the substrate for an hour is a lack of water. I soak the berries in water for one day and then strain all the excess water. The berries on the top end up being extremely dry, whereas the berries on the bottom are almost oversaturated. With 45 minutes at 15 psi, the moisture level is optimal. Any suggestions?
Anno-I think the problem is actually a lack of water with the rye berries. Usually, I notice condensation on the saran wrap when the mycelium starts to fuzz up after taken out of the jars and broken up. With my tray of B+, portions of it are fuzzing up right now and showing condensation on the saran wrap. HOwever, the rest of the rye berries look dry, and there is no condensation in those areas. I ended up sterilizing some horse dung/vermiculite and placing it on top of the berries today.



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InvisibleCLuB99
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: Azure]
    #405421 - 09/26/01 10:40 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I soak the berries in water for one day and then strain all the excess water
here's your problem, i think. 250 ml of rye should be cooked with 230ml of water if used for spawning, and 250ml if using the rye as only substrate.
Or you cook the rye before in abundant water then discard the excess water or just mix the ingredients, let it stay 24 hrs and cook it for 1 hr, 1.15....


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InvisibleCLuB99
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: Azure]
    #405426 - 09/26/01 10:42 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

hey..know what?...i lose your prints:mad:

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OfflineAzure
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: CLuB99]
    #405513 - 09/26/01 11:37 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Thanks Club99... Check your PM's...if you just add water to dry rye berries and then cook it, does the water distribute evenly?



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: Azure]
    #405827 - 09/27/01 03:39 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

It doesn?t. That?s why you have dry kernels on top and wet at the bottom.
BUT: That?s why it is so importand to shake the jars after the pressure cooking while the jars are still very warm(hot). Doing this you mix the dryer and wetter kernels, and over a period of several days you get a very uniform water content over all kernels.

-------------------
Visit www.fungifun.org formerly kickme.to/mushrooms

Be very, very careful what you put into that head,
because you will never, ever get it out.

Thomas Cardinal Wolsey (1471-1530)


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InvisibleNDK
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Re: Rye berry problem [Re: Anno]
    #405903 - 09/27/01 07:55 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I'd advise you just to cook the rye first. It produces exactly the right moisture content even if PC'd for 1 hour.

My rye looks pretty dry all the way through but works just fine.



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