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OfflineC20H25N3O
Calico Kahlia
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Posts: 1,386
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Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes * 1
    #3928911 - 03/17/05 03:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Dark star crashes
pouring its light
into ashes

Reason tatters
the forces tear loose
from the axis
--
http://arts.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/darkstar.html


--------------------

Calico Kahlia come tell me the news
Calamity's waiting for a way to get to her
Rosy red and electric blue
I bought you a paddle for your paper canoe

Say you'll come back when you can
Whenever your airplane happens to land
Maybe I'll be back here too
It all depends on what's with you


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OfflineTinTree
thread killer(semi pro)
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Registered: 02/15/04
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Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: C20H25N3O] * 1
    #3929108 - 03/17/05 06:06 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Too many drugs
Your song lyrics
make no sense


--------------------
"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley


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OfflineC20H25N3O
Calico Kahlia
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Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: TinTree] * 1
    #3930233 - 03/17/05 01:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

these aren't my song lyrics and these make tons of sense. Its a great song.


--------------------

Calico Kahlia come tell me the news
Calamity's waiting for a way to get to her
Rosy red and electric blue
I bought you a paddle for your paper canoe

Say you'll come back when you can
Whenever your airplane happens to land
Maybe I'll be back here too
It all depends on what's with you


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: C20H25N3O] * 1
    #3930589 - 03/17/05 03:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

makes perfect sense to me :smile:

one of the best songs ever


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: Vulture] * 1
    #3930592 - 03/17/05 03:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Searchlight casting
for faults in the
clouds of delusion

shall we go,
you and I
While we can?
Through
the transitive nightfall
of diamonds


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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InvisibleLthirdSeyeD
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Posts: 422
Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: Vulture] * 1
    #3931859 - 03/17/05 08:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Amazing song, what are some of your favorite verisons of it?

I love Dark Stars of 72


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: LthirdSeyeD] * 1
    #3931900 - 03/17/05 08:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

yeah 72 was always good for them. 77 too.

anyone have the grayfolded cd set?


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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InvisibleLthirdSeyeD
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Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: Vulture] * 1
    #3932043 - 03/17/05 08:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

77 was a grand year!


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OfflineC20H25N3O
Calico Kahlia
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Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: Vulture] * 1
    #3932044 - 03/17/05 08:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Mirror shatters
in formless reflections
of matter

Glass hand dissolving
to ice petal flowers
revolving
--
I just like the feeling I get I haven't really had many favorite songs.

However, late seventies and most of the 80s I haven't seen anything impressive. I love the early stuff, like pre 69.
--
Now, whats not to get about the first verse of the song.

Quote:


Dark Star
An oxymoron: the brightest of objects, seen as the absence of brightness.

Tracking down the original use of the phrase "dark star," and its subsequent meanings and usages, is a task meant only for a determined obsessive. Namely, myself.

The phrase seems to have come to the English language by way of the astronomers who spoke Middle High German, who in turn borrowed it from Latin, translating the phrase "stella obscura", used by Roman astronomers to describe a faint star. This was translated into the German of the Minnesingers, and of the medieval German astronomers, as "dunkler Stern". The astronomers, according to an article by Arthur Groos, used it in a comparable manner to the meaning of the Romans, while the Minnesingers adopted it as a literary metaphor.

He cites a song by Kurenberg, a mid-twelfth century poet:
"Der tunkel sterne, der birget sich.
als tuo du, frouwe schoene, so du sehest mich.
so la du diniu ougen gen an einen andern man.
son weiz doch luetzel iemen, wiez under uns zwein ist getan.

[The "dark star" hides itself.
Do likewise, beautiful lady, when you see me:
Let your eyes glance at another man,
And no one will know how things are between us." For many years, the phrase as used by the Minnesingers was taken to mean "Venus", the "star" obscured by cloudy vapors, and representing Love in the age of chivalry. Groos' article contradicts this interpretation, arguing for a much more complex metaphor. His article ("Kurenberg's 'Dark Star', in Speculum: a Journal of Medieval Studies, vol. 54, 1979, pp 469-78) is worth reading.

Astronomers today still use the phrase "dark star" to refer to the phenomenon of a faint star, and in reference to dwarf stars. My astronomy isn't what it might be, so any help in this region would be appreciated. I'll cite one recent article:
"Dark star throws light on missing mass." New Scientist, v. 116 (Nov. 19, 1987), p. 33. The subject tracings for the article indicate it is about Dark matter (Astronomy) and Dwarf stars.

This explanation from Rob Meador arrived March 7, 1995:

From robm@qm.jwiley.com
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 95 16:55:22 -2400
From: Rob Meador

In your discussion of Dark Star, you noted that astonomers use the term in connection with dwarf stars. I'm not an astronomer myself, but I work for a company that creates textbooks, and I found some stuff about dwarf stars in one of our astronomy texts-- ASTONOMY: THE EVOLVING UNIVERSE by Michael Zeilik (John WIley & Sons, Inc., 1994).

In essence (and in one sense of dwarf), stars go through dwarf stages as they die. Our sun, for example, "... will become a white dwarf, then a black dwarf-- a cold corpse in space."

On the atomic level, the nucleus of an atom is surrounded with a cloud of electrons. At high stellar temperatures, atoms are ionized and the electrons run around free of the nuclei. As a star is crushed to higher densities in its evolution, the electrons form a degenerate electron gas.

In 1935, a guy named Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar applied the physics of a degenerate electron gas to the model of a star. He found that the pressure exerted by the electrons could resist the force of gravity only for stars of less than 1.4 solar masses and that such stars would have a particular density. Such stars are known as white dwarfs. This guy also found the crucial point at which the star has the highest density and smallest radius possible. Any more mass at all added to this point, and the star collapses. This point is known as the Chandrasekhar limit.

So, a white dwarf is a star at the end point of its thermonuclear history where no heavy elements are fused and no energy is produced-- the end of the line of energy production. Slowly, the stored interal heat of a white dwarf then radiates into space (pouring its light into ashes, as it were). Eventually, it becomes a black dwarf, cold and energyless and non-productive.

Another kind of dwarf is the brown dwarf. The brown dwarf is a protostar that never achieves enough mass to become an actual star. The text I'm drawing from defines brown dwarf as: "... a very low mass object of low luminosity that never becomes hot enough to sustain thermonuclear reactions."

So, a white dwarf is a dying star, at the point at which it no longer produces energy. A brown dwarf never gets to be a star. In either case, the image is of barreness, death, and stagnation-- and we all better go while we can!

One final note: when a massive star dies in a supernova, the blast can spew newly synthesized elements into interstellar space. "Supernova explosions, remnants, and pulsars may be the sources of cosmic rays." Or as Walt Whitman would have it, "I believe a leaf of grass is no less than the journey-work of the stars."

A tip o' the hat,

Rob

And this from Barbara Ortagus:

From ortagus@gate
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:25:11 -0700
To: ddodd@serf.uccs.edu

David, this is terrific work you're doing. Regarding "Dark Star", it brings to mind (at least, my mind) something I read in John Gribbin and Martin Rees' book Cosmic Coincidences, Dark Matter, Mankind and Anthropic Cosmology (Bantam, 1989): (Gribbin also did In Search of Schrodinger's Cat which to my mind (and most probably no-one else's) relates to the Cheshire Cat because it is and it isn't (but isn't everything?))

"There is no longer room to doubt that dark matter holds our Galaxy, and others, together; the major issue is, what is that dark matter?"

He goes on to describe failed galaxies. Sort of a step on down the road from dark stars, huh?

BTW, when you said have you ever wondered what would happen if you stopped to investigate everything you didn't know about (or something to that effect), that's what I've been doing for about 50 years and boy am I ever lost! Anyway, I sure enjoy your work and the postings of others. ortagus@gate.net

And this from Eric Elliott:

Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:13:35 -0400
From: Fjalarh@aol.com
Subject: Dark Star

Greetings.

I have a bit of information to add to the astronomical ideas associated with "Dark Star." I agree with Rob Meador that Hunter's lyrics could suggest the collapse of star into a white dwarf - "Dark Star crashes, pouring its light into ashes," but I've always thought the song is more likely referring to a pulsar. I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, an expert on stellar evolution, but here's the basic definition of a pulsar: When a very massive star goes supernova, the collapsing core becomes a neutron star- an ultra-dense object, part way between a white dwarf and a black hole. A pulsar is type of neutron star that, because of its rapid spin, and ejection of radiation, causes an observer to see a intermittent pulse of light (or more likely, radio waves). A frequently used analogy is that of a lighthouse. Pulsars are often found in the center of a massive nebula "cloud," the result of the original supernova. (An example is the pulsar within the Crab Nebula.) "Searchlight casting for faults in the clouds of delusion" is an apt description. Also, it's important to note that the radiation being emitted by a pulsar is being ejected from its magnetic poles. Hunter's lyrics, "...the forces tear loose from the axis" (or Garcia's "...the forces stem from the axis,") seem significant in this context.

I believe that theories about pulsars were first being developed in the mid to late 1960's, and pulsars were probably a pretty hot topic in some circles. Larry Niven's short-story "Neutron Star" (written during that time period) is a fascinating monologue on what it might be like to explore up close this type of stellar object.

- Eric Elliott

Another comment:

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 16:57:02 -0800
From: Steven Jernigan
Subject: Dark Star

Hi, I was just going to throw my .02 in on the matter of Dark Star. Imagine if you will a mirrored sphere in space. If it isn't too close to any light source then all light that reaches it could be treated as a point source. This means that it wouldn't show up as anything, it would just blend in mirroring the surrounding space. Just a thought.

Any number of books and songs have used the phrase, and it is now impossible to tell who influenced whom, and is it important, anyway? I find it interesting to see how often the phrase has been used, so I offer the following, doubtless far from complete, list:

Books, films, and songs using "Dark Star" in their titles:

* Books: Fiction and drama:
o Caldecott, Moyra. Child of the Dark Star. 1984.
o Chambers, Robert William. The Dark Star. 1929.
o Cost, March. The Dark Star. 1940.
o Dowding, Hugh Caswell Tremenheere. The Dark Star. 1951.
o Furst, Alan. Dark Star. 1991.
o Gater, Dilys. The Dark Star. 1981.
o Hill, Pamela. A Dark Star Passing. 1990.
o Hilliard, Nerina. Dark Star. 1968. (A Harlequin romance)
o Kahn, Florence Ring. Dark Star, a Drama in One Act. 1950.
o Knight, Brigid. Dark Star. 1965.
o Lloyd, Hugh. The Mystery at the Dark Star Ranch. 1934.
o Maybury, Anne. Dark Star. 1977.
o Moon, Lorna. Dark Star. 1929.
o Muller, Marcia. Dark Star. 1989.
o Silverberg, Robert. To the Dark Star. Short story, anthologized in The Cube Root of Uncertainty. 1970.
* Biographies: (this seems to be a popular subtitle for biographies):
o Amburn, Ellis. Dark Star: the Roy Orbison Story. 1990.
o Bates, Robin. The Dinosaurs and the Dark Star. 1986.
o Fountain, Leatrice. Dark Star. (A biography of the actor John Gilbert.) 1985.
o Jones, Dylan. Jim Morrison, Dark Star. 1992.
* Nonfiction:
o Dugger, Ronnie. Dark Star: Hiroshima Reconsidered in the Life of Claude Eatherly. 1967.
o MacLeod, Fiona. The Dominion of Dreams: Under the Dark Star. 1910.
o Wolfe, Robert. Dark Star. 1984.
* Films:
o Dark Star. 1974. (A sci fi feature film).
o Holt, Nancy. Art in the Public Eye: the Making of Dark Star Park. 1988.
* Recordings:
o Oldfield, Mike. Dark Star. Track on Tubular Bells 2. 1992.
o Stills, Steven. Dark Star."Track on CSN.

Note relationship to the title "Stella Blue". Stella is Latin for star, so, a blue star.

A line in J.R.R. Tolkien's poem, "Cat", refers to:
"The pard dark-starred,
fleet upon feet..."
("Pard" is short for leopard, so the dark stars being referred to are the leopard's spots.)

And this comment from a reader:

From jcesare@sdcoe.k12.ca.usFri Mar 31 08:10:33 1995
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 22:58:42 -0800
From: Joe Cesare
To: ddodd@serf.uccs.edu
Subject: Dark Star

Add to your Dark Star data: 1953 Kentucky Derby winner.

Hmmm.... the year I was born.
The faster we go, the rounder we get!





Need more on darkstar?
need more on this song, really I hope every deadhead knows about david dodds annoated gratefuldead site:

http://arts.ucsc.edu/gdead/AGDL/


--------------------

Calico Kahlia come tell me the news
Calamity's waiting for a way to get to her
Rosy red and electric blue
I bought you a paddle for your paper canoe

Say you'll come back when you can
Whenever your airplane happens to land
Maybe I'll be back here too
It all depends on what's with you


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OfflineSmallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Dark star crashes pouring its light into ashes [Re: C20H25N3O] * 1
    #3932142 - 03/17/05 09:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

what was wrong with poor dark star and why did it crash? is the axis still doing O.K.?


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report


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