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Offlinegourangachild
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Registered: 08/31/01
Posts: 2
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
alkaloid extraction
    #389604 - 09/09/01 07:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Should I extract the alkaloids from my mushrooms, or would they be better off dried and stored whole?



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Offline777D777
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Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 182
Loc: The Universe
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: gourangachild]
    #389628 - 09/09/01 08:09 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know how one would go about extracting alkaloids . . . so i say just eat them fresh or dry them for a rainy day!

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Offlinetchyted
miestro
Registered: 09/03/01
Posts: 526
Loc: WA near seattle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: gourangachild]
    #389630 - 09/09/01 08:11 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

unless you are very good a chemestry, have a lot of time and money to waste on detailed extraction, the extracts are not much good outside of a freezer for more than a week. this is because of enzymes that break down the indoles, get extracted right along with.

while some drying methods loose as much as half of the desired components, the end product can be stored for long periods without significant further degradation.

beyond that there is the issue of personal taste in how you like to consume them.



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Offlinebaraka
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: tchyted]
    #389756 - 09/09/01 10:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I think if u put the shrooms in front of a fan for a few hours and then put em in with dessicant container they dont loose their potency at all. Atleast not noticble to me.

-baraka


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Offlinegusb232
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Registered: 05/01/01
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: gourangachild]
    #389767 - 09/09/01 10:43 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

YA Its not such a good idea to do an extraction, because psilocibin in is pure form very very potent. a slight miscalulation in dose could get you to level 5 , but slighty less and you might not have any effects.
you would need a very acccurate scale : that measures a least in miligrams.
I think the best way would be to dry them and put them into capsules. there are lots of teks on this site. have a look.

The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible.
Eistein


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: gusb232]
    #389776 - 09/09/01 10:54 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ive read about this - and how A. Hoffman was able to extract these alkaloids. I think he soaked Ps. Mexicana in methanol or ethanol (not sure which) for three days, strained out the mushroom reminants, then let the liquid evaporate, leaving a sluge of alkaloids that were then dried and placed in capsules. Sorry i cant remember the full details, but it was pretty similar to DMT extraction from native Australian Acacias - and there are articles on this at Erowid



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OfflineTrippinRhino
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Registered: 03/24/01
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: gourangachild]
    #389795 - 09/09/01 11:41 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

How, may I ask, do you propose to 'extract' the alkaloids my friend. Do you even have the slightest comprehension of the laboratory discipline required to succeed in such an endeavor? Just Eat them like normal people. Perhaps when you grow up to be a big boy you can be a chemist or a chemical engineer like myself. You will still find that it is much more efficient to just eat the f**cking shrooms and not ask questions like this. I am terribly sorry to take this tone with you...I promise....This is not my typical demeanor. However, I see this question brought up from time to time and I always have to wonder why someone who has recently learned to grow shrooms can't just be happy with munching them. I can tell you that the work required for making TRUE extractions of psilocybin and psilocin would be a rediculous amount of work for someone just trying to catch a buzz. This type of laboratory proceedure is reserved for research as it relates to organic chemistry. For example: What is the effect of pure psilocybin vs. pure psilocin on laboratory rats, making pharmaceutacal grade drugs for psycological research and observation when all other variables must be removed and pure chemicals are required, etc.

Please except my appology for being an ass and enjoy those shrooms with a glass of OJ. Leave the 'extrations' to qualified professionals.

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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: TrippinRhino]
    #389806 - 09/09/01 11:57 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

From what Ive read, Hoffman had more difficulty growing and fruiting Ps. Mexicana than extracting these alkaloids - probably because he was a Biochemist... I agree, just munch 'em



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Offlinetchyted
miestro
Registered: 09/03/01
Posts: 526
Loc: WA near seattle
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #389823 - 09/10/01 12:16 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

i did real well in college organic chem, so i thought i was up to the task. I have a very good idea of how hoffman did it, as i was able to find his paper on the subject. I will NOT be passing that on here.

why? because it involves flamable chemicals. highly flamable.

in my effort to recreate his extraaction tek, i nearly burned down my @#$#$%^&*()*^$%##% house!!!

I don't mean this to sound arrogant, but I'm a decently proficient lab tech and it was hard for me, so it would be insane for me to encourage others.



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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: tchyted]
    #389832 - 09/10/01 12:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

true, but they are listed everywhere on erowid



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Offlinestoner
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Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: gourangachild]
    #389875 - 09/10/01 01:30 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

dear tripping rhyno and all chemist,
it always amazes me as well as enrages me that highly intelligent and educated assholes such as yourselves keep synthesis recipes locked away tighter than a dolphins asshole! anyway i just dont see why you wouldnt want to share your knowledge with people who actually have the ambition to do that sort of thing and make it available. i mean i could understand if you yourselves were making the "product" but if your not why not make the info available to someone who is going to. after all the more people who have this knowledge as well as use it the better off we all are and here are the reasons why, 1. the more people manufacturing the easier it will be to make these "products" available. 2. the more people, the harder it is for the pigs feds etc. to pinpoint and shut down these operations. 3. the most important, drug prices will be forced to drop. it would be the same as if there were 20 people growing shrooms in my town as opposed to the 4 who are now who pretty much put whatever price they want on they're product however i can not blame them for this as the heat is on from the local pd. i guess what im trying to say is i look at drugs as the drug war. its a war the government has waged on us, the innocent and good people who enjoy such substances. i can tell you right now the only way we ever have a chance at surviving this war let alone winning it is by uniting, whether it be in person, spirit, or sharing some knowledge that one of us is willing to put to use. so now i apologize for my opinions of you and hopefully you'll prove them wrong.



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Offlineduncan8r
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Registered: 08/07/01
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Loc: Syd, Australia
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: stoner]
    #389938 - 09/10/01 04:05 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Hey Stoner,

My monkey has some pretty nice qualifications from a decent uni, now he agrees with those who are NOT just giving out info on the extraction thingy. Its freakingly dangerous, a similar extraction went wrong on another simian I know and he lost more than his hair - and by the way we dont keep the methods locked up!!! Anyone with an above avreage knowledge of chem would be able to look at the molecule and devise an extraction method - let these ppl do it!!!

The best my monkey has done is share information about how to grow lots organisms including shroomz, and he thinks thats his degrees put to good use. My monkey is happy to chat all day long about rhizomorphic growth or sterilization procedures for different growing mediums and anything his mighty degree can help you with !!!! I agree with gusb232 and trippin rhino - sorry hope u arnt too enraged!!
Learn to grow, and if you want a nice way to store and eat, try 'blue honey' with dried shrooms in honey. My monkey used to have access to this, made his breakfast nice!!

Sorry for the ramblin on

Duncan8r and his Whizzo-Biotech Monkey

Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. --Dave Barry


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Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. --Dave Barry


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OfflineTrippinRhino
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Registered: 03/24/01
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Loc: TX
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: stoner]
    #389953 - 09/10/01 04:54 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Stoner,
I am certainly not keeping any extraction proceedures a secret. As folks here have told you...there are fairly reasonably outlined instuctions for doing this on Erowid and other sites. Now, synthesis of psilocybin (as in making it from scratch), that would be interesting! I am sympathitic to what you are saying in your last post there and I share some of your views. Please don't feel like I am an asshole. I am certainly not hiding the mysteries of alkaloid extraction from anyone....lol. What I am saying is this: I have read the techniques born from the work of others and can certaily follow them.....Most of them require expensive lab glassware and chemicals. The methanol or ethanol (extremely flamable.. I forget too and either would work) extraction process outlined by Hoffman uses the term 'extraction' fairly loosely. I would more call it separation. Extraction would be more specifically defined by separating individual chemicals. He has 'extracted' if you like, a solution of essential oils and alkaloids from the mushrooms. This is the point at which one begins the EXTRACTION of psilocybin, Psilocin through distillation, separation, etc. The point in all this is: After all this work, you are still going to require a given volume of mushrooms to produce a given volume of these drugs.....After all this additional work, what you end up with is the less drug than what you started with do to the fact that you will loose some product with every step. You do not create more chemical just concentrate it...For What? You could have long since been having a nice shroomy day you see?

As far as myself, I really don't have any interest in making extractions. I know the work that would be involved and frankly I get a plenty nice buzz on just plain 'ol shrooms.

Peace Y'all

For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com a supporter of the free spore ring

Edited by TrippinRhino on 09/10/01 04:05 AM.



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All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos


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OfflineMs_Brown
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Registered: 07/23/01
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Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: alkaloid extraction [Re: TrippinRhino]
    #390109 - 09/10/01 11:23 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I would not recomend that anyone without some serious exposure to ADVANCED organic chemistry try synthesis. You could kill somebody! For example, If you are trying to prodce L.S.D. from ergot (I'm talking about the TRUE synthesis, not that crap from morning glory seeds), one of the products in one of the steps is highly toxic. If you don't know what I'm refering to, then you havn't had enough exposure to hard core chem. to be involved in such synthesis. I'm not trying to be a bitch, but leave the synthesis to the experts (and I am not in this category).
As far as extraction goes, if you can get your shrooms to grow, why bother. I could see it if you couldn't get them to fruit and wanted to extract the alkaloids. In this case, it would be best to allow the mycelium to age for six weeks after germination, then extract.


" It's hard to live free. But, when it works, it sure is worth it !" J. Joplin


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" It's hard to be free. But, when it works, it sure is worth it !" J. Joplin


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