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InvisibleSinbad
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Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism *DELETED*
    #3789674 - 02/16/05 04:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by Sinbad

Reason for deletion: various



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Edited by Sinbad (02/16/05 05:41 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3789973 - 02/16/05 05:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

do you have actual references in which the buddhist concept of ego is shown as you have above - is there any actual buddhist text in which the losing of ego is represented as you have above - i.e. separate from a western popularizer's interpretation.

i.e. some page of dhammapada?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3790131 - 02/16/05 06:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ego to me seems like a psychobabble term in which they tried to dissect and label parts of the mind. Mixing Buddhism and psychology is like trying to describe an orgasm to a rock.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3790342 - 02/16/05 07:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

propagramma


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3792010 - 02/17/05 07:58 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I do not have referneces that i can name on the spot, but to the best of my knowledge in most Buddhist texts the ego is basically described as a conceptual delusion, that perpetuates all delusion. In losing our ego's we gain freedom from the mental obsucrations of delusion which perpetuate the cycle of suffering.

Which to my knowledge is most certainly contrary to the western idea of ego.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/17/05 08:06 AM)


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3792042 - 02/17/05 08:18 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Tell me, what is worth living for?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: psyka]
    #3792119 - 02/17/05 09:03 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You are worth living for! Being a human being is an extremely rare an valuable birth. You have the fortunate opportunity to learn from suffering by realizing where it comes from and exactly what it is that makes you suffer. You have to opportunity to realize everlasting happiness. Is that not worth living for?

People who take their own lives have no understanding of the purpose or value of being born human. They kill themselves out of ignorance. They cant find satisfaction, so they think, "I'm hopeless".

In Buddhism we want to know how to find satisfaction, how to find happiness and joy instead of depression and misery, how to overcome the feeling that our nature is totally negative

Lord Buddha himself taught that basically, human nature is pure, ego-less, just like the sky is by nature clear, not cloudy. Clouds come and go, but the blue sky is always there, clouds don't alter the fundamental nature of the sky. Similarly the human mind is fundamentally pure, not one with ego.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/17/05 09:10 AM)


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3792180 - 02/17/05 09:27 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"I" am worth living for?

So my ego is worth living for?

But, I thought I was supposed to lose it?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: psyka]
    #3792207 - 02/17/05 09:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you cant separate yourself from you're ego you're completely misguided: you've created for yourself a totally unrealistic philosophy of life that has nothing to do with reality.

Please read my intial post on understanding ego again.

:japsmile:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3792222 - 02/17/05 09:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I concede to your superiority, good sir. Just asking a few questions.
Obviously, I am misguided and obviously you know the way, so wont you please lead on. I will ask no more questions.



--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: psyka]
    #3792248 - 02/17/05 09:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I am no more superior to you than the next person. We are all human beings after all. Yes that monk in the picture, was certainly miguided, as in Buddhism as well as other religions, taking ones own life, is seen as the greatest of sins.

I am happy to answer any more questions you may have.  :smile:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3792252 - 02/17/05 09:50 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Are rocks alive?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: psyka]
    #3792282 - 02/17/05 09:58 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I do not believe so, although some spiritual masters may claim that spirits live within rocks. I prefer to examine the nature of mind, rather than the nature of rocks. If you can discover the characteristic nature of your mind, it will be infinitely more useful and beneficial to you than thinking about the nature of rocks.  :grin:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3792288 - 02/17/05 10:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

So what is life? What started life?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflineGomp
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: psyka]
    #3792332 - 02/17/05 10:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

psyka said:
So what is life? What started life?




thinking as if asking is answering;  what life is, is life.

what life started, started life..

you started life, you started living..
life is what through, stilness, moves.. :P


:sun:


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: psyka]
    #3792335 - 02/17/05 10:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Those are diffcult questions, but in Buddhism it is generally taught that time is beginningless and endless, and that life is basically just the transmigration of concioussness from one form to the next propogated by ignorance.

All beings trapped within the infinte cycle of birth and death are subject to suffering through ignorance. Buddhism (the study of the mind and causes of suffering) is the path away from suffering and towards everlasting peace and happiness.

It is not nessasary that you believe any of these theories, in fact i dont see this as fundamentally relevant to the study of mind in general.

But since you asked i have answered from a Buddhist perspective.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/17/05 10:22 AM)


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3792357 - 02/17/05 10:21 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Nothing is without a beginning and an end. Why is time any different? Do you believe evolution theory or the Origin of Life theory?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3792440 - 02/17/05 10:45 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
I do not have referneces that i can name on the spot, but to the best of my knowledge in most Buddhist texts the ego is basically described as a conceptual delusion, that perpetuates all delusion.




from your garbled memory then, ego is a "concept" and a "conceptual delusion", and a "cause of delusion" etc.

I will say that among buddist ideas this is too foggy a notion already to be in any buddhist texts (unless badly translated by several arguing non-buddhists, or unrealized buddhists anyway - i.e. yapping away and not knowing what the hell they are talking about)

I take that "ego" is a concept and it is error prone as any concepts are.

Would you venture to say that it might be the concept that makes defending oneself a major issue? (even if you do not accept the prime error as belief in a continuous movie of self generated by citta proceeding one after the other, you probably accept that ego based error is usually defensive)

here you can deal with a precise class of delusion and a more exact idea of what you are trying to focus your attention on. (statistically and fractally of course)


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3792451 - 02/17/05 10:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

As far as I can tell, the use of the word "ego" has been suspended by most western Buddhists because there is so much baggage associated with the word. Instead, Buddhists refer to something called "self-grasping". Self-grasping is a mental habit which conceives of one's sense of self as being an island of conciousness, totally independent of other people and things. Once we have begun grasping at our sense of self, we begin associating it with our experiences and our actions. We identify ourselves with these things and ascribe a sense of permanence to the construct that appears. This makes us resistent to change, and when we finally do change it is always a gradual transformation. Self-grasping is like a pit of tar that prevents us from enjoying the bliss of how things actually are.

In reality, the person we think we are ceased to exist at almost the same moment he or she appeared to our conciousness, because we are involved in an inextricable and constantly fluctuating relationship with our surroundings. The more we grasp at a permanent concept of who we are, the more out of sync we are with reality, and the greater our potential for the experience of suffering.

Self-grapsing functions to create and sustain ignorance. The stronger our self-grasping, the less accurate our perception of reality is. Quite literally, self-grasping functions to blind. For example, when we become angry at somebody, the strength of our self-grapsing increases. As it increases, we settle on a single way of thinking; we exaggerate the frustrating behavior of the other person, and we begin to ignore their good qualities. Indeed, in a rage we might come to think of the other person as being an inherently awful and contemptable person. This is not a realistic vision at all.

When we are threatened by something severe such as a car accident, our panic causes our self-grasping to kick into overdrive, and we immediately lose control of ourselves and the situation. We react to things in an extremely unbalanced way, and may not even be aware of what is going on around us. The trauma of the experience causes us to become confused, and we do not see things as they actually are, even conventionally speaking. The extent of our ignorance is directly proportionate to the degree of our self-grasping.

The last time I became angry at somebody was during the whole Swami fiasco. I believed that I fully understood the kind of person Swami is and was therefore justified in maintaining negative feelings toward him. This is the ignorance caused by anger, by self-grasping. As time passed, those negative feelings subsided, and as I loosened the grip I had on myself I began to realize that the Swami I was relating to was a total hallucination. After exchanging one or two PM's, a totally new Swami appeared before me. Although that Swami is also a hallucination, in that he exists only within my own mind, I feel much more comfortable with this new Swami and even enjoy his posts very much.

When you think about it, everyone that we encounter is just a fabrication of our conciousness, and we a fabrication of theirs. This is not to say that they simply do not exist; it is to say that there is a discrepancy between the way they actually exist and the way we are perceiving their existence (and most likely the way they are perceiving their own existence as well). This can be very liberating to realize, in that it helps us harmonize our relationships by not being so quick to react to disagreeable people when they appear. Taken to it's ultimate goal, the final elimination of self-grasping is in fact the moment of enlightenment. It's not as impractical or hocus-pocus as it might sound. It is simply a matter of removing the obscuring lenses of self-grasping ignorance so that we can be fully awakened to how things actually are.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Understanding Your Ego - Buddhism [Re: Ped]
    #3792465 - 02/17/05 10:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes! Yes Ped  :grin:

Thank you. I will use the term self-grasping instead of ego in future.

:japsmile:


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