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Re: Turning Personal [Re: exclusive58]
    #3757975 -

exclusive58 said:
that was a great post OldWoodSpecter, i love it.

One question, do you have any idea what spirituality leads to? Where will being more aware lead us to in the long run?


thank you..

Well, it depends on many things.
For example, if the soul is mortal, then many might not get far on their spiritual journey simply because time is limited and distractions are many, so it leads them not very far from collecting food and shiny objects, and of course with that in mind (mortality), spirituality might have a different meaning in general
(a different goal). If we are indeed mortal, but do get very far on our journey, well who knows, certainly I don't. If we are immortal, then there is no limit to what we can become aware of, but still there is no way to know where will it lead us unless we go there.
I can only generalize and say that every spiritual path leads to truth and perfect mental harmony with the truth. That would result in peace and "spiritual" joy no matter what happens.

As Jesus said: Your Joy will be such that no one can take it away from you


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3758278 -

I just hit quick reply.

I hope this thread doesn't stop here. Sinbad thinks that practicing spirituality has some fundamental basics across the board.

So far, compassion has come up enough and yet, you yourself Sid even have compassion split into true and idiot versions. Are you beginning to see why there is very little clarity for you here? If compassion comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes in your book then well, how are you ever going to find a match to your belief system when you have rewritten the meaning of the prime fundamental?

I jibe with the responses that say everything and anything can be considered a spiritual practice from, communing with nature and animals to practicing athletics, music and arts, to digging ditches and fixing plumbing.

I will add this as I really resonated with it when I saw it. Being inspired is the same as being in spirit. Anything that inspires you to think, feel and act or to not think, not feel or act is being in a place of spirit.

If I am not inspired and creating, I feel like I am slowly dying.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3758381 -

You have a funny signature  :smile: :thumbup:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3758910 -

Paradigm said:
I think spirituality is essentially about bettering yourself. That's why I laugh when people accuse skeptics of being unspiritual. Believing in supernatural phenomena has nothing to do with making yourself a better person. However, I think that questioning ideas and beliefs is conducive to spiritual growth.


I actually came here "Looking for Answers", other's perspectives, and for some kind of "fact" or insights, or some ideas to solidify SOME kind of belief....  Thus I asked a crapload of questions, and made some long threads....    I did get a FEW insights, and I do thank those somewhat consistant people for taking the time.... 

In my frustration of seeing that not too many people were even actually viewing my threads, I started asking fewer, more specific questions in shorter threads....  And tried to make the title of the threads themselves "more shocking", so as people would "want" to read them out of curiousity....  :lol:    Yeah, that worked out well for me....!!!???    :lol:  :confused:    The more I post here, the less people view them....  It's cool, I have come to terms with "having expectations", and it kinda~ put it ALL into perspective....  And now I have none, and I choose to be happy the way I am.... 

Spirituality is based on EXPECTATIONS for something we blindly think we somehow "know"......    Having a belief system or not, I am still going to die....  When I die, I will find out what happens....    Just like everyone else....  As I came here with "expectations", and was dissappointed, I think that if I was to CHOOSE to believe in something/anything specific and have "expectations", I would most likely yet again be dissappointed.... 

No more brain storming questions, no more "seeking" answers with expectations, and no more frustration of spilling questions from my "soul" only to hear the crickets chirp at me....  Fuck it all....!  I will go on just being me like I was "before my search"....  Open ears, open eyes, open heart....  I will go on injecting my stooooopid "humor" in the hopes that somebody other than myself will find humor in it and appreciate it for what it is....    Knowing that the only thing that matters is that I ENJOYED MYSELF.... 

I believe in ME....  I TRUST ME..... 
I hope for the best and expect the worst.... 
If a "Spirituality" finds me before I die, then so be it....   
If not, so be it.... 
I will STILL BE HAPPY either way....  :grin:
If there was truly a GOD that "expected" us to believe in him, It wouldn't be something you have to go "searching" for....  ESPECIALLY being of PURE heart....    If God wanted me to "KNOW" he would stop time (so it wouldn't mess with his schedule), and TELL ME....  Screw the mind games....  :shake:    I need to live life while I have it.... 


>^;;^<


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3759294 -

Quote:
One Buddhists philosophy does not come close to matching a spiritual one. Some Buddhist believe when you die there is NOTHING. Do Buddhist even recognize a spirit let alone an eternal one? Spirituality I always thought recognized the eternal life of the conscious spirit.



Was that a reply in reference to someone statement or your thoughts?  Just because what you summed is a good part of my spiritual system and perhaps I could explain  how to reconcile what you asked if you would like.

A lot of things run counter-intuitive when they stand alone, sometimes the mind is the underdog when matched with its own creation.  :crazy2:


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: Turning Personal [Re: oceansize]
    #3759490 -

I brought that up here because in another one of Sindbad's threads he said to phluck that Buddhism was a close example to his idea of a spiritual practice.

It's been a long while since I have read Buddhist text and from memory, I thought spirit and consciousness after death was not acknowledged by it but that we returned to nothingness.

Please do correct me if I am wrong. Not that it matters if someones idea of spirituality is just limited to the spirit of human life while alive. Most spiritualists I know, acknowledge an eternal existence of consciousness in spirit.

No rights or wrongs here, just demonstrating how VAST the idea of spirituality is from person to person, religion to religion.

The goal of this post which is a branch off from another was to gain some clarity for him on what the fundamentals of spiritual were to members here in general. This is not a debate thread, just one of sharing personal ideas of spirituality.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3759951 -

"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days" -Kevin Costner (crash Davis) Bull Durham

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3759969 -

Buddhism is not really about after death or before birth but about the "thatness" of clear experiencing.
it all relates to the now
all of the rules are about that.
the whole conduct and 8fold path are about getting more connected to the now in a healthy way.

insights about the voidness of things are part of direct experiencing
which exposes the self as a process no more real than other mental contents.
this gets confused.
buddhism has been used effectively to explain many things we all experience and then things are confused again as regular thinking resumes about past and future and self and other etc.

voidness is not nothing, it is an aspect of experiencing


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3760487 -

I don't see the conflict, compassion is compassion, but i was explaining that without wisdom, compassion can be quite foolish and can cause one some problems. Having compassion without wisdom is like trying to fly with one wing.

I think that it was quite clear. I'm not trying to find a match, with my so called 'belief system' <---(which i do not have), nor am i rewriting the fundamental aspect. I'm just expressing the fact that without wisdom, compassion can become idiotic, isn't that simple, is that clear!

For me inspiration can be necessary in that it may motivate me to persevere in my practice and can lift my mind to a more positive state conductive for practice. But for me its not the main point, just a tool that one can use when necessary.


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Re: Turning Personal [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3760502 -

With regard to buddhsim i didnt say that it was close to my idea of spiritual practice at all, although in some ways thats true as compassion is the fundamental aspect of the buddhist path and the methods used within buddhism i find to be extremely effective,
i was giving an example of a religion that doesnt nessaserily require beliefs, as Phluck was under the impression that all spiritual systems and religions require it.

You are incorrect with regard to budhism, correct me if im worng but doesnt the whole idea of reincarnation within the context of hinduism and buddhism state that the mind essence continues after death?

All of the main spiritual disciplines see compassion as a fundamental aspect, im probably being quite bold with this statement, and possibly incorrect, but for me a spiritual path that is missing compassion cannot be called a true path at all.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/10/05 06:31 AM)

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: Sinbad]
    #3760991 -

one's idea of compassion could be another's ill will.


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: Turning Personal [Re: Sinbad]
    #3761172 -

I'm waiting for someone to correct both of us then. I didn't think Buddhist believed in reincarnation like the Hindus do. Maybe with Buddhism and the detachment living in the eternal now means you'll now when you die but make no assumptions until the after death because your now?

Anyone? Skip knows more on that religion. Thanks for clearing it up that you used it as an example of a practice that practices no beliefs, however, isn't detachment the practice of a belief that we are not our creations? And isn't the void a belief? believing in spirit is a belief so maybe they don't so how is that religion spiritual? I'm laughing, this started off with the idea to gain better clarity and I am becoming more confused.

What you say about compassion is interesting because many compassion types are taken advantage of. I always took it to mean that you can feel for another in a relating way and appreciate what they are going through and show kindness and empathy and care.

Long ago someone did a post on what would Buddha do if some stole his bike. That was a good one. I look at Jesus as an example for compassion. Supposedly he gave away anything he had if someone was in need and didn't turn away from anyone suffering and did what he could to heal. My mom is like that and I just see her version of compassion turning her into a door mat most of the time. Maybe that is a part of humility. I think she also bought into the catholic idea of sacrifice and suffering being the way into the purly gates.

If you can't give to yourself and allow yourself to receive, what do you have to give? She's almost always burnt out because of the guilt stuff about not giving time and energy to her own self.

So, it looks like we all probably even have different ideas about what acting in compassion is. If it is fundamental it should be more clear and it's not.

I was just thinking, being in a state of appreciation feels very spiritual to me, like it captures the Essenes best.

Well, I hope you stick around this time and maybe what one will find here is that the Essenes is just being able to recognize yourself in others no matter how small or large and to be able to see past life's wear and tear and into the good that is inherent in all.

Ultimately, what I have found on this board is a bunch of people going their own way together and as I said before, it's pretty cool how so many can do that. Maybe that is why I like it here so much. :wink: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3761738 -

Compassion for me is the altristic intention to help others, wisdom is having concrete knowlege and understanding of one own condtion in order to be able to know how to best help others and what skillful means need to be applied at any given moment.

The practice of detachment is a method of letting go, and is an effective tool for developing a calm and clear mind that requires no belief. Voidness is just an experience of the infinte/empty nature of existence. to avoid the risk of repeating myself about the essence of detachment (as i have explained many times on this forum) i will just say that it has nothing to do with the hippy'esque zoning out version of detachement that some unfortunate souls subscribe to.

Tibetan Buddhsim generally states that there are six realms of existence that one can take rebirth in. Also there is a genreal theme of transmigration whereby the mind continually transmigrates between these six relams in dependance upon the individuals karma.


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Re: Turning Personal [Re: Sinbad]
    #3761835 -

You worded that bit on compassion quite well!

So its the Tibetan version that acknowledges spiritual existance beyond this. What version are people quoting when they say they want to return to nothing? maybe i just misinterpret peoples wording here.

Maybe they mean to say the nothing void where all things of unmanifest potential spring from? I don't know if people really are seeking to become mindless for eternity in itself. I need to ask more questions around here when people say stuff like that.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: Sinbad]
    #3761862 -

I am not sure which souls you are talking about who might have the wrong subscription to voidness, is this related to your other thread?

anyway, in the course of a day, one can naturally transmigrate through any of the 6 realms enough to see that this part of the canon is not a preoccupation with death nor is it any reason to lift your attention from the moment, if you catch my drift, each of the realms is as proximal as the nose on your face.

all of buddhism is full of symbology that is intended to assist the meditator, but it can be confusing for people from non-meditative cultures who want to see parallels of their own culture portrayed.

many non-meditationg buddhists (the majority of thailand for instance) do believe extensively in after death legends - these people contribute to the upkeep of the temples so it does not pay to undermine their continuity.

In the big picture, there is a confusion between the teaching that a meditator needs and the public understanding among the people of the culture that supports the lineage that teaches the meditation.

In any case, the monks treat the public with compassion and respect. They do not find it necessary to re-educate everyone into meditators.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Turning Personal [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3761872 -

Return to nothing? I honestly don't know, could be some zen thing, but generally the word 'nothing' carries quite negative connotation within the English language so i would have asked those people about the qualifications of such a state. Sounds worryingly like a nihilistic perspective to me!

Sometimes the word 'nothing' is used to convey the unmanifest, but generally such words are avoided within western translations becuase of the negative connotation it carries.


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Re: Turning Personal [Re: Sinbad]
    #3763061 -

Come one guys, lets here some more views on spirituality! Seems like alot dont have a view that they wish to share, or maybe simply dont have a view at all?


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