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Invisibleraytrace
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Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
vegetarianism - dietary practices
    #542228 - 02/06/02 09:01 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Pythagoras of Samos, a very wise teacher of ancient Greece (philosopher, mathematician and musician) believed in immortality and transmigration of souls. He and his disciples followed moral and dietary practices in order to purify the soul for its next embodiment.

George Bernard Shaw, Anglo-Irish playwright, critic, believed vegetarians have radically different experiences from meat-eaters: ?pain is different, pleasure different, fever different, cold different, even love different?.

everyday we eat animals someone else has killed for us ? no blood, no dirty hands. since we eat them, why not try to cut some heads off first, watch them running around bleeding without a head, then remove skin and internal organs, then cook and eat

would you eat a dog or a monkey? if you?re open to other cultures, why not?

what impact do you think can a diet have on your life in general?


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OfflineLord_A
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #542422 - 02/06/02 01:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I feel very good, i'm 38 and have been a vegetarian from when i was 15. Can't tell anything about the difference because i just don't remember meat anymore.


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a strange direction can be a beautiful opportunity


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Anonymous

Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #542432 - 02/06/02 01:44 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I would like to not eat meat but it seems unavoidable sometimes. I believe the eating of animals has caused humanity to get very out of touch with nature. Especially in this fast food society..
When I go several days without eating meat I usually feel great, fruits and vegetables and beans and grain are so good as well.
Although red meat does play a role in increasing the sex drive.
I think we'll be at a good point when we can genetically engineer a pear to taste like a nice juicy filet mignon


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OfflineLord_A
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: ]
    #542459 - 02/06/02 02:06 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"Although red meat does play a role in increasing the sex drive"

I have a very high sex drive.


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a strange direction can be a beautiful opportunity


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: ]
    #542753 - 02/06/02 06:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I read an article a few days ago where they merged genes from a spinach plant into a pig or some other animal. They claimed it was the first time a plant gene had been inserted into an animal. They were hoping one day to make meat that had all the good stuff from plants as well. Ick. I would much rather just eat fruits and veggies and leave the meat to itself and the genetics to nature.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisibleraytrace
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Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: ]
    #543488 - 02/07/02 11:26 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

come on now man, why would you like a pear to taste anything else but a pear? i think i agree with seuss, we better leave genetics to nature

inserting a plant gene into an animal will only cause millions of animals to be treated like food (not that it is not happening now), as if their existence is only to serve man.... chains of fast food restaurant serving *healthy* ?veggie-pork? - marketing campaigns with smiling little green pigs - this can only do further harm and alienation from nature.

the idea of fruits tasting like meat, doesn?t sound much appealing either... like japanese over-working-never-seen-the-light-of-day scientists trying to invent an implant that?ll make your dog sound like nightingale? i think there are a lot more to explore, and invest our energy on? not to mention problems to solve? why not just try to minimize our consumption of meat to the least possible? but then again the big companies will be angry, won?t they?

?do not rape nature, but obey her? ? my shit translation of an ancient greek saying


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OfflineTeonanacatl fan
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #543639 - 02/07/02 01:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

The mighty mushroom taught me the disadvantages of meat (especially red meat). When I eat meat, I feel intoxicated and i'ts harder for me to deal with negative energy.

On the other hand, I agree with shroomism, it's hard for me to be 100% vegetarian, because I don't have the time or patience to cook for myself and I can't really afford to buy vegetarian food everyday. So, I end up eating a lot of junk.


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OfflineMentalHygene
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: ]
    #543668 - 02/07/02 02:09 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I tend to think that genetic engeneering would be more "out of touch with nature" than eating meat. At least meat is found in nature! Anyway, I too am trying to adopt a vegitarian lifestyle. LORD A: Do you have any suggestions as far as maintaining a balance of all necesary nutrients? Could you possiby run us through a typical days worth of meals? Thanks.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #543785 - 02/07/02 04:01 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I put a hell of a lot of thought into what I eat. Before any meal I try to ask myself what I haven't been getting enough of, or what I feel like my body really needs. Dietary practices definetely affect a whole lot of other aspects of life.

I eat meat. But I do so selectively. I don't eat fast food meat. Fuck no. I don't eat meat everyday, just a couple times a week. The vast majority of my meals are vegetarian. I don't think eating meat is unhealthy, or that it makes my body "impure." The whole concept that you can have a pure body anyway is ridiculous to me. We consume poisons everyday, and we did when we still lived in caves. There are toxins everywhere, and, fortunately, our bodies are designed to expell these toxins quite effectively.

People who spend thousands of dollars to go "detoxifying" spas to eat nothing but celery and clay (they literally do) which makes you crap pretty much constantly
are the ones who are out of touch with nature.

I can understand the moral dillema with eating meat, not because it is wrong to kill an animal for food (they do it), but because humanity is horribly out of touch with the process of meat. One time I was up at my friends cabin for a while. The only meat I ate the whole time was a rabbit that we caught, cleaned, cooked and ate. It was the only guilt-free piece of meat I've ever eaten and it was absolutely delicious. One day, for my own moral beliefs, I hope to only eat meat that I catch myself. I don't know if that is realistic, though.

Just my loose thoughts on food.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineLord_A
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: gluke bastid]
    #543856 - 02/07/02 05:11 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Well, my thoughts: Being a vegetarian doesn't make you a healthy human. If only it was so simple. But then again, although i'm a vegetarian, i think the concept health (just like the concept clean) is strongly overrated. You're born, you live, you die. How soon or through wich terrible disease doesn't interest me really. I became a vegetarian because of the animals. I was young and naive. That went out of the window very quick. Now it's a habit, i really don't know why, i just can't stand meat anymore. In those years i've tried it a few times, but no. The one thing that i feel at this time in my life is that i think it's wierd to eat something that has the same texture than me, like canibalism. But that's a very personal issue. Besides that point there is the terrible manner in which animals are abused for profit. There's totaly no respect towards what feeds most of the people, the industry based on the meat thing makes me puke. Same for genetic manipulation and that's a real problem because you can hardly find any soya that's not geneticly manipulated. The total balance get's fucked up that way and i really hate that (even without red meat, i can get very agressive). I think on a personal level it's a personal thing, on a society level it's a fucked up thing. I can respect the people that respectfuly(!) kill their own food. I also can respect everybody that eats meat, i don't have a problem with the others eating meat part.

And the question about nutrients, like i said i'm no health freak (in fact, i'm smoking my lungs out of bussiness so...). If the question is, what can you eat instead of meat and not miss anything your body needs? There are a lot of alternatives, soya produkts for instance, beans are nice. Lots of "imitation meat", preprepared burgers from soya or something like that. But i also hate the idea that i should eat something that looks like meat and sort of tastes like it but isn't. You become a vegetarian because you don't want to eat meat anymore (i don't eat fish either by the way) so why would you want the form and taste of meat? (the form of a hamburger of all things...) If you want to get or stay healthy, take some kelp, spirulina, bee pollen and stuff like that every day.


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a strange direction can be a beautiful opportunity


Edited by Lord_A (02/07/02 05:14 PM)


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OfflineMentalHygene
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Lord_A]
    #544028 - 02/07/02 07:39 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you for the info. On a side note, my main interest in becoming a vegitarian is because of the meat industry. It is totally disgusting......but I dont think I have what it takes to kill my own food.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544113 - 02/07/02 08:59 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I was raised a meat eater, but when I moved out on my own, I started eating veggie. A little at a time, then more and more.
Now I'm pretty much a full-fledged vegtable.

It just kinda happened. I never really made a consciece choice about it. Now when I see meat (when I go home, etc.), it just looks kinda grey and dead, and quivering, floppy. Not something I really want to eat. I swear it looks gross.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (02/07/02 09:01 PM)


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Offlineemptyvessel
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: carbonhoots]
    #544136 - 02/07/02 09:32 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I've been a vegitarian for a long while now and I gotta say, the body feels goood, best it's ever felt. Personally I don't think it's wrong to eat meat if you take the animals life yourself and with respect, but I think it's revolting what goes on in slaugher houses, and it clearly shows how alienated and insane humans have become. If you truly care about animals but still want to eay meat I think you should, A: Kill them yourselfs, or B: Stop supporting the brutal practices of the meat industry.

"On the other hand, I agree with shroomism, it's hard for me to be 100% vegetarian, because I don't have the time or patience to cook for myself and I can't really afford to buy vegetarian food everyday. So, I end up eating a lot of junk."

Sence when are fruits, vegtables, grains, breans, nuts, etc expensive? I thought they were the cheapist of any food you could buy. Plus most natual foods can be eaten raw, unlike meat which I think humans wern't meant to eat in the first place.

Anyways, just some more jibberish to fill your minds. -Peace


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OfflineLord_A
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: carbonhoots]
    #544531 - 02/08/02 06:59 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"Now when I see meat (when I go home, etc.), it just looks kinda grey and dead, and quivering, floppy. Not something I really want to eat. I swear it looks gross. "

That kinda sums up my feelings as well. It's just too wierd.


--------------------
a strange direction can be a beautiful opportunity


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Anonymous

Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544738 - 02/08/02 12:50 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

If they made fruit that tasted exactly like nice juicy bacon, I would eat it. That's all I'm saying.


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: MentalHygene]
    #547601 - 02/11/02 09:32 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

i think that if you're trying to become a vegetarian, you should know that you can get proteins from nuts (walnuts, peanuts etc), also, it would be nice to include some honey in your breakfast. then, there is this kind of fish oil, i don't know how is it called exactly - english not my parent language - you can get it probably from a pharmacy and it is used as supplementary source of nutrients-vitamins for vegetarians and other groups of people with special diets. soya is great but i don't think you can get any not genetically modified soya nowadays.

recently i heard this story that they genetically modified salmon in norway in order to increase their size, some salmons escaped the net, and now you can hardly find any naturally sized salmon.

also, there is an article i read somewhere on the net, i think there was timothy leary envolved in it, i can't quite remember a lot of it, but i think it was saying among others that a diet with increased proteins, and the use of drugs like coffee, amphetamines, cocaine etc. make your brain function more with its logical part and less with the imaginative.

some other vegetarians you might know : Allan Watts, Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, Diogenes, H.G. Wells, Isaac Newton, Kraftwerk, Leonardo Da Vinci, Lisa Simpson, Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther, Nikola Tesla, Plato, Shopenhauer, Socrates, Steve Jobs, Tolstoy, William Blake, Zoroaster


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #547649 - 02/11/02 10:45 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I also heard that a diet high in fats decreases brain activity, as far as fish oil is concerned, I don't eat fish either. Is that where fish oil comes from? How about cheese, is anyone here having a hard time getting off the cheese? I don't buy cheese, but I am a freeloader, and where there are people eating cheese, I will join in.


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OfflineDivine_Madness
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #547718 - 02/11/02 12:09 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Me too is vegeterian, my parents are, so I am too.
I pretty much feel like a hypcrite, since I do still consume dairy products, and sometimes eggs.

But my biggest problem is the way we handle the vegetebles . Yes, I am serious.
Most people become vegeterians becouse of the way the animals are being abused in the slaughterhouses and stuff, but look at the vegetebels. Its just as horreble. Genetic manupulations is fully being practised, they live in horrible circumstanses in greenhouses, having no normal live.
Would you like to be a plant in such conditions?

It would be the best to only eat fruit and such, since these are completely made for consumption...


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its all placebo


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Divine_Madness]
    #547723 - 02/11/02 12:13 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I have to agree, that plants seem to be lonely.
Maybe you should go lay down with them...

Or maybe, organic farming will come into style again.


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OfflineDivine_Madness
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: nugsarenice]
    #547732 - 02/11/02 12:20 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Some stuff I forget to add:
Since it is pretty much imposseble to live with only fruits, I believe it is best to just eat bio-dynamic and ecological food (I hope those are the correct words) And to be thankfull for all that you consume. Everything you eat gives you some form of energy and so you should respect is for you can take this energy to yourself. It would even be best to live completely respecting and loving everything and accept life, simply live enlightend, couse in this way the energy you consume is being used in its most useful way.
Let its death be useful. Think for what you would like to be consumed, if that would be your destiny in life.

Well, something like that.


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its all placebo


Edited by Divine_Madness (02/11/02 12:22 PM)


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Divine_Madness]
    #547737 - 02/11/02 12:24 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I totally agree, I like finding new and foreign foods all the time. My latest favorite is ginger. I can buy fresh ginger here. It looks like little kiwi, except it has a white miliky center. I add about 3 whole gingers to any stir fry and rice dish. I feel high as shit, after eating of. Do you have any favorite vegatables?


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OfflineJeff17
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: nugsarenice]
    #547752 - 02/11/02 12:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I think it's awesome that you guys are vegetarian, and it's awesome that their hasn't been one negative post to this topic so far.

My problem is that my parents will always make some kind of meat food, and i'm really hungry sometimes so I cant resist. But I am going to start being a vegetarian from now on, all I hear is good things about it as far as physical and mental health goes.

=)

Jeff


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Jeff17]
    #547764 - 02/11/02 12:42 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I have only been a vegatarian for about 2 years, there is a brief meat withdrawel symptom, but it is not hard to overcome if you have plenty of pistachious and peanuts, my new year resolution is to never eat any of these foods again, . The only thing is that with vegatariasm you have to be very creative, otherwise you will be malnurished.
My diet consists of basically fruits and oatmeal for breakfast.
Rice and spicy vegatables for lunch.
Nuts and spicy pototoes for snacks.
Anybody else have any good vegatarian meals?


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InvisiblePsilocyberSpace
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: nugsarenice]
    #547770 - 02/11/02 12:52 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Thats a questoin I always wondered, maybe a website with some recipes? I eat alot of nuts, rice, fruit, steamed and grilled veggies but I still eat meat a few times a week, I'm really far to short on recipe ideas to make the full step to becoming a vegetarian, I don't have enough nutritionist knowledge to make sure I'd stay healthy either. Maybe someday..


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Ours is not a better way, ours is merely another way.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: PsilocyberSpace]
    #547797 - 02/11/02 01:14 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

This dish is a staple, I highly reccomend.
Get a wide deep pan, and start to fry japanese and american potatoes, in vegatable oil until they are fairly cooked, about 7 minutes. Then add garbonzo beans and any other tasty beans, red white and yellow onions, scallions, and add hot pepper sauce, parsley, oregeno, lot's of garlic, black pepper, hot red pepper, green peppers, fry like this, then add lettuce and spinach, green beans, peas, and ginger, wax beans, fry until all of this is good and pasty. I say like 10 minutes. Mix with cooked rice at a ratio of 3 (paste):1 (rice) mix. Very good.


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InvisiblePsilocyberSpace
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: nugsarenice]
    #547893 - 02/11/02 02:55 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks !
I'll have to give that a whirl one of these days after I go to the grocery store.


--------------------
Ours is not a better way, ours is merely another way.


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Anonymous

Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: nugsarenice]
    #547963 - 02/11/02 03:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I can stop eating meat...but I will never stop eating cheese!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: PsilocyberSpace]
    #547964 - 02/11/02 03:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

There are several really good vegetarian cook books out there. I have made meals before that meat eaters had no idea were vegetarian. You gotta love the look on their face when they realize, "I ate tofu?!" or some such. If you are still eating meat, but want to stop, then slowly cut it from your diet. Only eat meat every other day, and no more red meat. Then every third day, but only fish. Then ... you get the idea. Also, don't ignore those cravings. When you would kill for a cheeseburger its your body telling you that it needs something that you aren't giving it. Rather than break down and getting the burger, try to eat something else and see if that fixes the craving or not. For me it was dill pickles that solved the burger cravings.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlineazzid
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Seuss]
    #550427 - 02/13/02 08:37 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Hey guys,
just wanted to mention in regards to ginger, it is a very powerful healing and energising plant, but it's even more effective when cooked in combination with garlic and onions (which are both great in their own right also). There is some sort of synergistic effect when they are together... and yes I'm a vego too =)
Regards,
Azzid.


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"Reality is an illusion caused by lack of shrooms" - All posts are fictional - Read at your own risk


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: azzid]
    #550619 - 02/13/02 11:57 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone ever eat crackers and grape sandwiches? Grapes and salt is good.


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Offlinewintertime
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #550931 - 02/14/02 07:59 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

William Blake wasn't vegetarian. He just believed that things should be killed for a reason, like most of you who have been saying that killing and eating your own food is acceptable.
(don't mean to bring you up on it, he's commonly used in pro-vegetarian examples, albeit somewhat incorrectly)

Anyway.. :smile: I went through a brief period where I just couldn't bring myself to eat meat. I thought hard and deeply about what I was actually doing, and the conclusion I came to somewhat echoes a few people here. I found I agreed with Blake, if you arn't just killing animals for fun or sport, but to actually survive from, then it is fine. They do contain excellent sources of proteins, but too much red meat can be bad for you. I limit myself to what I feel I need, and I don't really feel the urge for red meat very often. I prefer the taste of vegetarian meals compared to others, but I don't mind eating meat should there be little choice.

We are really made to eat meat, we have canine teeth which are made for ripping meat, but its a matter of the quality of meat you are eating too. Too often I used to eat shitty processed meats that use low quality meat, less nutrition and taste.

 


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OfflineRoger_irrelevant
War's boring,change thechannel!

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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: wintertime]
    #550957 - 02/14/02 08:37 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I have recently turned vegetarian (buddhist also) due to my experiences with the mushroom. I don't miss meat at all. I hardly ate red meat much anyway but did consume alot of fish, but there is a veritable wealth of goodness to be found in the plant world and it's not expensive, unless of course you're looking live of ready made veggie meals which is just boring.
Chesse is fine as long as it's veggie so no animal coagulant (rennet). Unless youre vegan of course.
The only problem I have is with multi-vitamins being as thier usually encased in gelatin or some other by product.

Oh and I think I'm gonna have to be the one to make the first bitch in this post. I created a post called Fav veggie recipies (or something like that) in the OTD and it fell like bomb! You bastards made me have to get of my arse and buy a dodgy vegetarian cookbook, WHERE'S THE LOVE MAAAAAaaan:mad: :wink: 


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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #551725 - 02/14/02 09:07 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Hey, a question:

Does anyone know how to prepare raw foods? Sprouting time? Soaking time? Rinsing? I'm clueless.



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Offlineemptyvessel
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #554079 - 02/17/02 02:15 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

We are Herbivorous, therefore meat is bad for us. it gets cloged in our intestines thus causing cancer. Meat from the meat industry is even worst for us since it contains antibodies and harmones, which in turn goes into our bodys, thus causing cancer. Try your teeth out on some raw hide and see how well your teeth perform. If humans were designed to eat meat, we wouldin't have to cook it.
It's bad enough as it is on our systems, just imagine if you ate it raw. Our teeth are more designed for eating fibrous foods that are naturally softer and easier on the system. And our canines are more designed for tearing skins off of fruits and veggies, I mean really, look at carnivorous baboons which are similar in size in relation to us, they have huge canines, why? duh cause thier teeth were designed for tearing meat. The proof that we're not meant to eat meat is very simple; Stop eating meat and you'll feel better.

And on diet, I personally eat very plainly which turns out nice because instead of going out and getting some junk food I'll instead maybe have some seasoned potatos or some chilli. Eating plain food tastes alot better too when you can actually tatse it, It's because of all this flavored junk food out there that makes our taste buds dull, I mean there's nothing like a nice jucy peach when you can taste it to the fullest.


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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: emptyvessel]
    #554208 - 02/17/02 06:39 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

>We are herbivorous, therefore meat is bad for us

Depends what you mean by "us". For most of our history ("our" meaning the genus Homo, not the species sapiens), we have indeed been predominantly vegetarian. Many scientists now believe that had we carried on down this road, we never could have evolved to the extent we have. This is because digesting vegetable matter takes a tremendous amount of energy. We never would have been able to evolve our high-functioning brains (something like 80% of the bodies energy goes into supporting the brain) if all that energy had been occupied with digesting nuts and legumes.

Our teeth are actually pretty well-adapted for chewing both meat and plant matter.

And in case you think I'm just another evil carnivore, I'll add that I haven't eaten animal flesh for atleast a decade. My point is, it's a personal decision to become vegetarian. You shouldn't base it on some vague idea of evolutionary superioty, but rather on how you believe other life on the planet should be treated.


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Offlineemptyvessel
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Pynchon]
    #554924 - 02/18/02 01:46 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sorry did I say that meat eaters were evil? I don't have a problem with people eating meat. I do have a problem though with people supporting the meat industry when it's clear as day whats happening in those places. If you eat meat and yet say you care and love animals thats just like saying, 'I love you mom' while stabbing her in the back and spitting on her face. What do you expect though, our culture is insane it countless ways, we're so entangled in this corporate millitray bullshit it seems theres no way out, shit I probably buy products from coporations that own cattle ranches. So go for it! eat meat! support the daily genocide, kill my fellow brothers and sisters, I used to do it to, so hell I guess I'm just a judgemental hypocrite. Why the fuck do I insist on trying to change people...I don't know... it's hopeless. I'm insane, what do you expect?. sigh


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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: emptyvessel]
    #555049 - 02/18/02 05:54 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I know you never said meat-eaters were evil...I was joking. Do I really need to use one of those bloody smilies when I say something tongue-in-cheek?

Settle down, I agree with you (about the meat industry).


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Offlineiangato
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #557272 - 02/20/02 10:34 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

i love meat. eating meat is natural. other animals do it too. they didn't learn it from us. also, i don't eat any fruits or veggies besides, corn and potatoes and i'm in very good health. i don't have anything against vegitarians or vegans though. i give you guys and gals mad props. i should i feel ashamed to eat meat? plants are living things too. who cares about the rights of plants? i do. i also care about the the rights of animals and my right to eat them. adios. peace.


--------------------
a blurry dot dances among the shadows
bends the light
and fizzles into my pink and glowing mind

-ian gato


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OfflineMyceliumcake
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Divine_Madness]
    #557285 - 02/20/02 10:46 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

People had a lot to say on this issue, and it can be hard to follow for me if you do not put some space in between those huge blocks of text.
So I did not read everyones posts.

But my oppinion on meat is the following: meat is ok to eat.
America consumes way way to much meat.
Red meat especially should be consumed in much moderation.
I could eat fish all day everyday.
To continue in detail would be a repeat of an argument I have made many times before.
So I will let you all do your own research.


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Myceliumcake]
    #557490 - 02/20/02 03:29 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

would you eat a monkey?


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: iangato]
    #557499 - 02/20/02 03:45 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

of course you shouldn't be ashamed for eating meat.

if meat-eating aliens were about to land on earth soon, would you prefer to be hunted to get eaten or would you rather be born and raised in a building with thousand others waiting to be eaten?


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Offlineketamatic
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #559401 - 02/22/02 09:37 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I have been vegetarian since May of last year. I have noticed no ill effects from not eating meat, but knowledge about nutrition is key if you are going 'out of the norm' so to speak. Check out the library, figure out how much protein, carbs, fat, etc. you need in your diet. You can get 100% nutrition you need without any animal products. Here's my contribution on veggie recipes: 1 can of stewed tomatoes, 1 can of whatever bean you like the most(I prefer kidney), 2 servings of cooked rice, a handful or so of shredded cheese(I think mozzarella is the best), and whatever spices you think will add to it, I like a dash of chilli pepper. Mix everything together and heat to your preference.


--------------------
"Tyin' off the dinosaur tonight used to be so cool, but now I've got the needle, and I can't shake, but I can't breathe, you take it away, but I want more and more, one day I'm gonna loose the war..."
--Bradley Nowell


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OfflineGod_Killer
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #559707 - 02/22/02 03:01 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Damn you guys are wacked out. Pynchon is about the only vegetarian in this thread that made any sense. Meat isn't bad for you. Hell, scientists are now begining to find out that red meat is only bad for you IF the animal was fed a diet heavy in grains. Eating grass fed beef9what their suposed to eat) actually helps keep your arteries from getting clogged. So yous guys do have something of a point about factory farming being relatively unhealthy but a diet consisting of lean meats/wild game, vegetables, fruits, nuts etc. is completely healthy for you and is what your body has been designed to eat. I have personaly noticed that "long term" vegetarians usually look older than their actual age. By long term I mean 20 years more of vegetarianism. Damn hippies. I gotta stay out of this forum. Damn new age kooks get me all worked up with all this half thought out mumbo jumbo. Sorry for the rant. have a nice day.


--------------------
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.-Benjamin Franklin


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OfflineGod_Killer
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: God_Killer]
    #559722 - 02/22/02 03:18 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Heres a link to bit of info about pre-historic human diets and such that might make you Krazy hippies rethink your belief that humans are herbivors.
http://www.beyondveg.com/cordain-l/metab-carn/metabolic-carnivory-1a.shtml



--------------------
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.-Benjamin Franklin


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: God_Killer]
    #559864 - 02/22/02 05:31 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Humans are neither herbivores or carnivores, they are both. You have the option to choose either one. I will let you think about this though, a person who eats only meat is less healthier then a person who eats everything but meat and dairy products. So how can meat be healthy? The reason most people eat meat is because their lazy, they would rather eat a quick meal of a hamburger, then sit down and eat 2 cups of rice and vegatables. About a 30 hour time difference.

Here are some more recipes that people here might like, even meat eaters.

Noodles fried in peanut oil
Cashews, 3$ a pound where I am
oatmeal with pineapple and pears, boil the oatmeal with them
rice cooked with vinegar and seaweed, (sushi without fish)
corn with sugar

I really don't have that many recipes, but I eat these same ones over and over again.

I also want to add, that their are studies which show that people who eat meat are lazier. So maybe the fat cell inhibits your energy synopsysis cells. I doubt you know much about these types of nervelike cells that are in your body, but neither do I, except that certain chemicals can dull your mind, or dull the pain, depending on how they react with your body, and the fat from meat is one of them. If you have ever been given lidocaine or novacaine you have experienced something like this, your nerve cells were made unfeeling, by clogging all your pores with a solution made up of some type of amino acid ( ?? not sure ??) . Also my body cannot handle acid and meat, maybe you can, but I cannot, I used to try to mix the two, and would always end up being sick, this is actually the root of me becoming a vegan. I decided that I would fast when I would trip, and found out that it really did help, so I just redesigned my diet of hamburgers, cheese type pastas, and made it the above.


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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: emptyvessel]
    #559898 - 02/22/02 05:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Meat: Some people cannot go on any vegen diet, no matter what. Meat is a necessity for some to maintain their health equal that of a vegan.

That may change due to the inethical production in the meat industry


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Offlinemm.
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: God_Killer]
    #559915 - 02/22/02 06:07 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

God_Killer heres some facts:

Cancer rates among vegetarians are 25-50 per cent less than non-vegetarians.

Vegetarians have half to three-quarters the risk of dying of heart disease compared to non-vegetarians.

Hypertension (high blood pressure) in vegetarians is one third to one half that of meat eaters.

95 per cent of all food poisoning comes from meat and animal products

Diabetes is much less likely to be a cause of death in vegetarians.

35 per cent of the world's people can be fed on a meat-based diet. A plant diet could feed everyone


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MAPS.org: supporting psychedelic and medical marijuana research since 1986


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: mm.]
    #559922 - 02/22/02 06:15 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

with all these facts, it makes people wonder whether we originated from herbivores or carnivores...


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OfflineGod_Killer
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: nugsarenice]
    #560005 - 02/22/02 07:09 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"Humans are neither herbivores or carnivores, they are both"
Ok, so far so good. We calls dem critters omnivors.

"You have the option to choose either one"
While I agree that as a free individual you have the choice to eat what you want, studies of the diets of pre-historic and modern primitive peoples shows that humans have evolved over [at least] hundreds of thousands of years twards a diet that includes quite a bit of meat.

"a person who eats only meat is less healthier then a person who eats everything but meat and dairy products"
While this may be true there is a goodly amount of evidence that sugests that a diet that includes lean (grass fed) red meat, fish, and lean poultry along with large servings of vegetables, fruits, some WHOLE grains and nuts is healthier than a vegan/vegetarian/frutarian/raw food diet.

"The reason most people eat meat is because their lazy"
I disagree. Convienience is not laziness. Many people who eat meat work long hard hours and acomplish many things in life but still neglect a healthful diet. Also, many simply do not like vegetables. While I enjoy and eat all types of non processed foods I enjoy and perfer the taste of meat(especially fish) to most plant foods.

"Also my body cannot handle acid and meat, maybe you can, but I cannot, I used to try to mix the two, and would always end up being sick, this is actually the root of me becoming a vegan."
I don't have any problems eating and tripping other than the fact that a full stomach(anything not just meat) seems to inhibit/slow the high. I just don't eat the day that I'm gonna trip. Then again i don't trip as much as I used to either. I must be gettin old.

"so I just redesigned my diet of hamburgers, cheese type pastas, and made it the above."
Hmburgers(i assume you mean from fast food joints) are loaded with saturated fats. Also the white bread that it's served on is processed all to hell and has no real value as food other than caloric value + because it's no longer a whole grain so it is metabolized very quickly( Complex vs. simple carbs and the glycemic index etc.) The same thing goes for the cheese in the pasta and the pasta itself. In my humble opinion you would have been as well off to simply switch to the type of diet I recommend than to deamonize meat.

OK I said my peace. I feel better now. Silly hippies:)






--------------------
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.-Benjamin Franklin


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OfflineGod_Killer
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: mm.]
    #560056 - 02/22/02 07:47 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I'm fairly certain that these statistic compare vegeterians to the general population. Problem is the general population eats shit. White bread, Processed food out of a box covered in white sugar. Not much fruit, fish, or vegetables. I personally know people who eat nearly zero veggies and lots of captain crunch and fatty meat. Compare the diets of oh lets say okinawans (they eat gobs of fish and have a cool kung fu sounding name for the art of not overeating) to the veggie heads and you'd be suprized. I believe i read that seventy percent of the that pop. lives to be 100. I'm not defending the standard american diet here. Hell man the plains indians ate shitloads o' buffalo and most of them that didn't die as children etc lived damn near forever. Recent studies have shown that the meat from cattle fed ONLY grass contains something that actually keeps plaque from building up in the arteries. I'm not sure but I think it's CSA or something like that? it's pretty hard to find grass fed cattle as it's more expensive to raise but some companies are beggining to carry it. it's quite a bit of work to eat healthfully in our society but to compare the modern american diet to vegetarianism is simply unfair. I'm saying eat some fish, eat some meat, eat up to 10 servings of vegetables, about five of fruit(lots of berries), some whole oats/barley/wheat/etc. and some nuts. As to feeding the world? I could care less about the world. It's grossly overpopulated already. Them damn third worlders are sittin on prime grazin land. if we quit feedin em i could get a nice estate in argentina and raise me some cows. Moo. Silly hippies:)


--------------------
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.-Benjamin Franklin


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OfflineGod_Killer
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: nugsarenice]
    #560063 - 02/22/02 07:51 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"with all these facts, it makes people wonder whether we originated from herbivores or carnivores... "

We evolved from herbivors to a omnivorous diet. This is pretty much the oposite of how most other omnivours evolved.


--------------------
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.-Benjamin Franklin


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Offlineemptyvessel
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: God_Killer]
    #560905 - 02/23/02 08:40 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"Them damn third worlders are sittin on prime grazin land. if we quit feedin em i could get a nice estate in argentina and raise me some cows. Moo. Silly hippies:)"

Funny.

Why must you stigmatize bro? do we not feel seprate enough as it is? ... I know you could probably say the same about me but hey that's alright... I'm not ripe yet.


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OfflineCoolMojo
Imagination iswhat you make ofit
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #560921 - 02/23/02 08:58 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I beleive nug said he saw eating fatty foods decreased brain activity. Keep this in mind if your a vegan....
The neurons in your brain are coated with protein, this protein acts as a sorta lubricate/insilator. The less of it you have the slower the nuerons in your brain fire and subsequently the slower you think. If your not eating meat make VERY sure you are  getting enough protein, someone else said they can't eat something they're made out of but keep in mind that if you are eating something your made out of your getting most of what you need to create yourself :blush:) if you eat meat or not doesn't matter just make sure you get a varied diet as in don't eat carrots all day long or you'll get sick, same for steak. Variety is the only need humans have in their diet, the rest is just nit picking.
Shroomism: If you would like to give up meat but not milk and cheese I'd like to point out that dairy cows are kept MUCH!!! better then they would be in the wild or at a meat farm. They live like royalty so if thats your reservation, don't worry and eat all the cheese you want.


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OfflineGod_Killer
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: emptyvessel]
    #561008 - 02/23/02 10:38 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Just ignore some of the stuff I say or at least take it with grain o' salt. I tend go out of my way to avoid political correctness and to make sure everybody knows I'm a nuckle draggin neanderthal redneck.


--------------------
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.-Benjamin Franklin


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Offlinedrunkgoat
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: God_Killer]
    #561096 - 02/24/02 12:25 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

.


--------------------
Give a man a match and he will be warm for an hour. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.


Edited by 3DSHROOM (02/24/02 12:48 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: nugsarenice]
    #564483 - 02/27/02 03:40 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I think even those in this discussion who are not ENTIRELY veggy may like some of the recipes here.

http://www.harekrishna.com/col/books/VEG/ht/welcome.html#Chapter%207

It is a VERY cool place for recipes and maybe a new idea or two for some. :wink:
It may be a bit redundant for some, but covers almost every point brought out in this thread. The health aspect of veggie diets,economic advantages,ethical reasonings and also spiritual meanings in diet and offerings. But most important for some here, it has some of the best recipes EVER from all ethnic backgrounds!! YUM!

:tongue: ~K~
   


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InvisiblePsilocyberSpace
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: ]
    #564486 - 02/27/02 03:48 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Perfect thank you!



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Ours is not a better way, ours is merely another way.


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: ]
    #564605 - 02/27/02 09:40 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

great! thanx


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OfflineChonger
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #570306 - 03/05/02 08:20 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I've been a vegetarian for about 2 years now, and i think i am much healthier than i was when i was eating a lot of meat.
I started by limiting all the meat which i ate, then i slowly removed red meat from my diet, followed by all meat, and then finally fish.
It wasnt hard at all, and i dont miss meat much at all anymore.
I eat a mostly mediteranean diet, lots of olive oil, garlic, onions, peppers, pasta, nuts, beans, and lentils. Theres so much diversity in a vegetarian diet.
The reason i chose to be vegetarian was because i have serious doubts about the meat industry, and living in the UK, you can probably understand why. But mostly because i dont like the idea of meat being packaged and dealt with in a way so that when it reaches the consumer, its easy to forget just where it came from, and what was done to it.
Meat is obviously a major food source for us these days, and i doubt it will decline too much in popularity, although vegetarianism is increasing in popularity.
I agree with what someone else said about meat making them feel intoxicated, and i have found this the case with me also.
I think this is caused by meat being particularly hard to digest, which adds to the debate of whether humans were ever  intended to eat meat. Another point which suggests not, is that we cook all our meat. Strange indeed :wink:

My favorite vegetarian foods are those with lots of garlic, herbs, tomatoes, olives and olive oil, mmm.



--------------------
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: Chonger]
    #570396 - 03/05/02 11:45 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

There are a couple buddhist books, which mention that people used to have longer lives, around 900 years. Then we all became a bunch of lazy inbred meat eaters, and drastically killed our life span. Just look at parrots, most live longer then us. There might be some truth to it, this information does come from a chinese buddhist sect, so I don't know if this is a belief of all buddhists.


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: vegetarianism - dietary practices [Re: raytrace]
    #570644 - 03/05/02 05:14 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

from personal experience i would say that it is harder to abstain from meat while drinking lots of alcohol... i would even go on to say that smoking weed might help avoiding meat (you find fruits and vegetables a lot more tastier - but, well, ok that might not be the case for everyone...)


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