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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3678860 -

The_Red_Crayon said:
I love it when people talk about how bad 2nd hand smoke and carcinogens and carbon monoxide it puts out when people sit in rushhour bumper to bumper traffic and inhale mass amounts of car exhaust.


You're conflating two different carcinogenic air pollutants into one, as if they were mutually inclusive. Obviously they are not. In other words, two wrongs do not make a right.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: unbeliever]
    #3678872 -

Their are many cancerous things we put into our body. 2nd hand smoke is but a minute risk.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: unbeliever]
    #3678921 -

unbeliever said:
The_Red_Crayon said:
I love it when people talk about how bad 2nd hand smoke and carcinogens and carbon monoxide it puts out when people sit in rushhour bumper to bumper traffic and inhale mass amounts of car exhaust.


You're conflating two different carcinogenic air pollutants into one, as if they were mutually inclusive. Obviously they are not. In other words, two wrongs do not make a right.


Ah, but the overall high lung cancer rates are one of the most common used arguments against smoking and no attempt is ever made to exclude air pollution that i have seen..by, for instance, mapping lung cancer rates of smokers to urban and rural areas.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: Catalysis]
    #3679024 -

what interesting here is that is is the politicians that are getting huge contributions from tobacco companies are not opposing these kinds of things at all... wtf?
ud think theyd be agressively against any law that allows for such a thing to happen...

something stinks here and it aint the 2nd hand smoke...


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-Know ye not that ye are gods?-
My homepage

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #3679076 -

Yes, and as lung cancer continues to rise while smoking rates decrease, it doesn't take a statistical genius to figure that there may be more contributing factors than we are aware of.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: Catalysis]
    #3679142 -

One of which may be that we are living longer. I do believe that cancer overall has just passed heart disease as the leading cause of death in adults for just that reason. The longer we live the greater the chance that cell divisions will mutate and survive as cancer.


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Edited by zappaisgod (01/25/05 08:06 PM)

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: Catalysis]
    #3679196 -

Believe it or not its a variety of things. I had a friend whose grand father died at 99 years old. He smoked marlboros and ate greasy food and drank beer everyday.How does he live to be a a couple days shy of his 100th birthday. When someone else gets cancer when their 50.

Genetics, Environment are a few of the culprits.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3679202 -

I think it's wrong to fire workers who smoke. Those workers have devoted their lives to the company and are the reason for its success.

However I *do* think companies should be allowed to make certain decisions about their company image. They should have the right not to hire new people if they smoke... they are a HEALTH company afterall.. and it IS a private business. Private business should be allowed for the most part to run themselves however they want.

My solution: Don't hire new employees that smoke... but don't fire the smoking employees. Instead, encourage them to quit and help them quit (offer them a program which will help them quit).

First off... Implementing a plan like this out of no where and firing the people who smoke is like saying... OK.... we made a law saying that action X is illegal... and going around and figuring out who commited action X before it was illegal and jailing them for performing action X

Second off... That's very inhumaneof the company to do. Smoking is an addiction. They should treat it as such. If they want to fire smokers... fine whatever.. but at least give people fair warning... say some shit like.. hey.. 6 MONTHS from now we're going to fire smokers... and give them a heads up.... and even if they still smoke... give them some lee-way if they're at least TRYING.

This world isn't black or white... even in court.. if you get busted with drugs.. if you're currntly in a rehab trying to get help... the judge takes this into consideration when sentancing you.

I think corporations should have some say in determining someone's employment based on their lifestyle... they already do things like that now... People who donate their free time to charities and churches helping others usually have the advantage when getting hired. That is a lifestyle choice. Are you saying that corporations are being immoral when they consider this when hiring someone?

Anyways.. my conclusion... You shouldn't just be able to fire someone outright for smoking... but you should be able to set a goal saying that in a year from now you must be a non-smoker to work here... you have to give currently employees a little time to determine if they want to quit or not and to give them a fair amount of time to 'change'

I'm againt gov't sticking their noses in private business to a degree. I think there should be health regulations, environmental, etc because that shit affects the whole planet.

However...

Decisions like this are a grey area. When it comes to personal stuff... the people who built this company worked their asses of to grow this company and it's a PRIVELLAGE.. not a right to work for someone. If there are going to be laws the regulate shit like this... I think it should be up to the LOCAL laws.. fuck the federal gov't saying that I should be allowed to do this or not allowed to do that. Who is the federal gov't to determine what is MORAL and what isn't. A lot of democrats think we need laws to protect us from shit like this case.... morally I think they're right.... but I just don't like the idea of the fed's making laws based on morals. I don't drug a gov't with ethical lawmaking like this.. the same gov't that treats drug use like a criminal problem instead of a health problem. Fuck that.

Local gov'ts know more about their own people, their own cultures and traditions... Having ONE gov't say what's right or wrong for everyone is FUCKED UP. The local laws should determine whether shit like this should be allowed.. that way.. if you don't like it.. go find a community that subscribes to values similar to yours..

Sorry.. I'm kinda libertarian in my thinking... I think that only states and districts know what's really best for their own people.

Edited by BrAiN (01/25/05 08:29 PM)

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: BrAiN]
    #3679223 -

You are exactly correct. Many companies won't even fire an illegal drug user without giving them treatment options first. Employers need to realize that, while they are offered many rights not afforded to companies in other countries, they have an obligation to the people whos lives they support to basically not destroy them.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: Catalysis]
    #3679237 -

Catalysis said:
You are exactly correct. Many companies won't even fire an illegal drug user without giving them treatment options first. Employers need to realize that, while they are offered many rights not afforded to companies in other countries, they have an obligation to the people whos lives they support to basically not destroy them.


That's a good point dude. The way things are right now... it's illegal to fire someone for using drugs if they're seeking help... the government sees it as the same as firing someone for a disability...

funny... the gov't only sees drug addiction as a health/disablity thing when regulating business... yet there is still a drug policy that treats drug users as criminals.. go figure.. sounds like the gov't is contradicting itself here.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: BrAiN]
    #3679256 -

By the way dude... seatbelt laws aren't around to protect people from projectile bodies.. when was the last time you heard of a case of someone being injured in a car accident due to someone flying through TWO windshields and hitting the person in the other car

sealbelt laws are there for one reason only... to keep the cost of auto inurance down. The more money that geico has to dish out to cover hospital bills.. the more premiums skyrocket. It's the same reason that state gov'ts require car insurance... to keep the costs down.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: BrAiN]
    #3679269 -

Yeah I would actually give those policies more respect if they didn't attempt to masquerade them as being "for your own safety".

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: phreakyzen]
    #3679281 -

First of all, I highly doubt any of you arguing here qualify for a position at this company, aside from janitorial work; which is usually sub-contranctual labor anyway.

Second of all, don't like a company's policy? Don't work there.

there should be no debate about this  :crazy:


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We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.


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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3679288 -

Its more of an ethical debate as opposed to saying "this company should be forced to employ smokers".

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3679293 -

StonedShroom.. I'm down... I agree.... companies are private.. like I said.. the owners busted their asses to build it...

But it is pretty fuckin inhumane to just say ok.. starting tommorrow.. you smoke.. you're fired! If people got hired years ago and had the knowledge that three years down the road, they would be fired on the spot for smoking.. they probably wouldn't have taken the job. It's a pretty irresponsible thing to do....

But all in all... it is the the private company's right to do what they want..

it is also the citizen's rights to protest this and bring this issue to the news if they think it is inhumane and to try to give the corporate a really bad image and encourage others to boycott it....

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: BrAiN]
    #3679339 -

it's a health care company for goodness sake

why is it so surprising a HEALTH CARE COMPANY is implimenting a healthy lifestyle?


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We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.


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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3679347 -

People should be allowed to smoke. Thats unfair. :thumbdown:


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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3679359 -

I'm just saying... people's lives are at steak... these people probably get paid just enough to pay the bills... If there are people that have been working there for years who smoke... and they just get fired out of nowhere... that's kind of fucked up. I've got no problem with the company not wanting smokers as employees...

They should have been screened out from the START. Letting people build their lives around a job there and giving them false hopes of a safe job just to fire them without any warning is IRRESPONSIBLE and CRUEL. I'm not even talking about whether ot not they should be legally allowed to do something like that. Fuck if I care what the laws say about this.

Like I said... if these people knew they were going to get the carpet pulled out from under them with no warning, they never would have wasted so many years of their life with this company. This corporation just wasted X numbers of years of their employees lives by hiring them under misleading terms.

Although.. if they were hired and years back and had to sign some shit saying they could be terminated for any reason whatsoever.. well.. they're fucked... and should have read the fine print before signing.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: StonedShroom]
    #3679375 -

Well they are not just "implementing a healthy lifestyle". They are firing people and that is a very serious thing when you rely on that income to survive.

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Re: Company Fires All Employees Who Smoke [Re: ShroomOmatic]
    #3679396 -

Dude... they're not saying people can't smoke... they're just saying... if you smoke, you can't work here. That's their right.

Why should the gov't step in and say they can't do that? The company doesn't have any obligation to hire people they don't want. Just because you're incorporated doesn't mean you owe the public anything.

Like I said though... let the public decide. The employees should, if they think this is unfair, bring this to the attention of the masses of america. If the people of america think that's wrong, they'll boycott the company.. which is just as powerful a tool as any law out there.

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