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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 354
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Queensland Bans Smoking
    #3100569 - 09/06/04 10:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Beautiful one day, smoke-free the next
By Mark Todd Brisbane
September 7, 2004

Ladies and gentlemen, please extinguish all cigarettes - you're entering Queensland.

The Queensland Government yesterday jumped ahead of the rest of the country in the crusade to stub out smoking by announcing sweeping new laws, including a ban inside pubs and clubs from the middle of 2006. It will also be against the law to smoke in outdoor eating areas.

"These are the toughest anti-smoking proposals anywhere in Australia," said Queensland Premier Peter Beattie. "They include proposals that are not yet being considered by other states in their plans to introduce further tobacco bans."

From next year it will be illegal to smoke between the flags on the Sunshine state's beaches, anywhere near children's playgrounds, inside sportsgrounds, or within four metres of the entrance of an office building. Point-of-sale advertising will be outlawed from the end of 2005 and retailers will face three-year bans for selling cigarettes to children.

Queensland Health Minister Gordon Nuttall said smoking-related illnesses killed more than 3400 people each year in Queensland and were responsible for about 30,000 admissions to hospital.

The Queensland bans are part of a worldwide crackdown on smoking in licensed premises.

In Tasmania, the Government has been under fire in the past week for trying to delay a total smoking ban until 2006, meeting criticism from community groups, opposition politicians, unions and health lobby groups, who want the ban introduced no later than July 1, 2005.

The Government legislation, which proposes restricting smoking on January 1 but stops short of a full ban, has been delayed while Labor rewrites it, introducing a total ban but delaying implementing it until 2006. The move gained momentum after the death of former premier Jim Bacon.

The bans have extended to the US and even to Ireland, where smoking in pubs was banned this year.

Victoria introduced smoking bans in gaming venues in 2002 and has banned smoking in restaurants and cafes and the dining areas of hotels.

However, the NSW Government, which banned smoking in cafes before Victoria did, is still to move further on the issue despite a decade of intense negotiation and consultation, according to lobby group Action on Smoking and Health.

"There is absolutely no doubt that second-hand smoke causes disease, disability, and death," said Anne Jones, chief executive of ASH. "You can't trade off the lives of bar workers over fears of a slump in poker machine profits." While health groups welcomed Queensland's move yesterday, not everyone did.

Caroline Gilbert, nominee of Rockhampton's famous Grand Hotel, which offers something of a refuge for habitual smokers, said she and other publicans would keep fighting to the last gasp.

"It takes away our right to choose," she said. "Who's going to police this anyway? I sure as hell won't. I'm too busy looking after my business to worry about someone lighting up in the corner."

Cigarette retailers have also criticised the bans.

here


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Anonymous

Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3100804 - 09/06/04 10:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

yeah this is crap. there was some group trying to get the local board around here to enact a local ordinance banning smoking in bars.

if you own a bar, you get to decide whether or not smoking is allowed inside. it's not public property, it's private property open to the public.

this sort of thing is a perfect example of force taking the place of voluntary interaction. if enough people want to avoid smoky bars (and it doesn't take a lot), then bar owners will react to this, and some will voluntarily amend their smoking policies to either make smoke-free sections or prohibit smoking altogether inside their property. absolutely no need, nor justification, for government involvement here.  :thumbdown:


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 354
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: ]
    #3100879 - 09/06/04 11:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I don't agree with this view at all.. Let me be clear about that, but how exactly do you respond to smoking being presented as worker's rights?

Quote:


Thats the same basic arguement people use to promote sweatshops, that the worker chooses to work in unfair conditions, even though the choice is usually between no money or unfair conditions. i guess you don't have a problem with someone having to CHOSE between a safe working environment and a paycheck. oh i nevermind i see.. it's just a little bit of toxic smoke.. it will only give them cancer if they work there for years.

Ok, so you have enough non-smoking section employees and one of your smoking section employees decides they've had enough smoke and want over to the nonsmoking. The law says you cannot create negative consequences, but you have no hours for this person to work. you would support a law that forces you to pay someone whom you can't employ?

All payment including tips must be equal for smoking and non smoking employees. also you would be prohibited from discriminating against new employees who refuse to work in the smoking section. you wont be able to ask if they are willing to work in the smoking section until after they are hired, and then you cannot get rid of them or give them crappy hours because they will not work in the smoking section.




Couldn't a libertarian arguement be made against smoking around others who do not wish to inhale these toxins, especially employees of a business?


Edited by DigitalDuality (09/06/04 11:16 PM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: ]
    #3100882 - 09/06/04 11:16 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Australia is way beyond the curve here. Ottawa, Canada has had that in place for years. No smoking in bars. New York as well. Toronto too, I believe (couldn't swear to that). Montreal hasn't yet done it.

pinky


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3101088 - 09/06/04 11:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DigitalDuality said:
Couldn't a libertarian arguement be made against smoking around others who do not wish to inhale these toxins, especially employees of a business?



People are free to choose where they work. Most people who work in smoky bars don't really mind it that much because they are smokers.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3101256 - 09/07/04 12:29 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

In the city where I live (Calgary) they passed a bylaw that makes it illegal to smoke on outside patios, yet perfectly legal to smoke inside in the bar/pub/restaurant etc...I never did get the logic behind that one...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Rono]
    #3101331 - 09/07/04 12:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Canadian politics hasn't been logical since since the Diefenbaker years. Okay, maybe since the Pearson years.

If I ever return to Canada (fat chance) I sure as hell won't be living anywhere other than Alberta, though -- funny smoking regulations or not. You do realize that the federal Liberals absolutely cannot allow Alberta to continue to exist much longer, don't you?

Just a head's up for an old buddy.

pinky


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Phred]
    #3101363 - 09/07/04 12:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You do realize that the federal Liberals absolutely cannot allow Alberta to continue to exist much longer, don't you?




I am aware that Alberta has been a thorn in the side of the Liberal party for some time, but I admit I'm not sure what you are referring to when you stated the above.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Rono]
    #3101407 - 09/07/04 01:00 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Let's face it, Rono. Alberta is the last remaining vestige of quasi-rational life in the entire People's Republic of Canada.

As such, the Liberals absolutely cannot afford to let it stand. The contrast between the individual freedom of Alberta (limited though it may be in absolute terms) and the Liberal corruption and enslavement of the ROC (Rest of Canada for you non-seal-clubbers in the audience) gives lie to the Liberal vision of all that is Just and Right (TM); all that is "the Canadian Way"

You guys are just too damn self-reliant and nowhere near whiney enough to fit in with the Liberal version of "reality". As such, you must be destroyed.

Don't say I didn't warn you. If you ever want to bail, I guarantee you a room (for at least a little while) here in my wonderful Third World incompetocracy commonly known as The Dominican Republic. Bring the fifty Loonies you owe me on that "Bush invading Saudi Arabia" bet while you're at it.

pinky


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Phred]
    #3101419 - 09/07/04 01:03 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Geez...and you call ME a conspiracy nut... :wink:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Phred]
    #3101427 - 09/07/04 01:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i dont like our government either, you probably heard about AdScam..

even after AdScam they elected Paul Martin.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Zahid]
    #3101462 - 09/07/04 01:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Of course they elected Paul Martin, duh!

As a guy who lived the first three and a half decades of his life in Canada, I think I am qualified to offer an opinion about the essence of Canada --
Canada is one of the best places in the world to live if you are an incompetent loser, and one of the worst places to live if you are a competent winner.

Please read the above carefully -- I do not mean to imply that all those living in Canada are losers. Far from it. I only mean to say that if you are a loser, Canada is one of the best places you can live, because the Gummint will look after you (by stealing from the winners) from cradle to grave. Oh, sure -- you might die while waiting in an endless queue for diagnostic medical services, but even taking that into consideration, it's a sweet deal for the slackers and the terminally incompetent.

Back on topic -- I am woefully ignorant on Australia's constitution. Have any Australian barkeeps mounted a constitutional challenge to this latest Queensland usurpation of individual rights? Or is it pointless to even try?

pinky


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Phred]
    #3101478 - 09/07/04 01:20 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well, much of that has to do with the fact Canada has no identity.

But I agree with you, this is the epicenter for losers. It's not hard to convince the government to take care of you. I know one guy who doesnt have a single disability or financial ailment, yet he has managed to remain on welfare for 7 years.. almost a decade!

maybe you should get out a cot at your place and i'll join you in the third world.  :tongue2:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Zahid]
    #3101496 - 09/07/04 01:27 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Zahid writes:

maybe you should get out a cot at your place and i'll join you in the third world.

Only if you can forego that five times a day Imam-wailing-from-the-Mosque-tower-call-to-prayer shit. The Merengue music is enough noise pollution for me.

pinky


ps -- Actually, the call to prayer stuff is okay if it's done on a Walkman or an iPod. What you listen to on headphones ain't my business.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Phred]
    #3101519 - 09/07/04 01:34 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hehe, ok..

that's how I study the Qur'an anyway, with an iPod like device with earphones that has the Arabic recitation on it..I think most azans done from mosques in non Muslim countries are with speakers indoors.. the mosque I pray at doesn't use speakers, whoever is there first can just say it themselves.. it's all laid out for anyone, with all the signs that read "If you the last one out of the mosque, turn off the lights and lock the door. Thank you!"  :cool:

:tongue2: :wink:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Phred]
    #3101534 - 09/07/04 01:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Toronto just did it a few months ago, London, Ontario, where I live, did it two or three years ago. I think it's a pretty bad idea overall. You can still smoke if it's an outdoors area, so lots of places were scrambling to build patios before the law passed.

It is pretty nice in some ways, being able to breath inside a bar is often a pleasure, but there's the odd time when I get really drunk and want to smoke. There are also quite a few bars where it seems pretty ridiculous. For instance, there's a bar downtown called Click's. They have $7 pitchers, and lots of toothless old people. There's always 5 or 6 drunk, smelly, and obnoxious people standing in front of the bar, blocking the sidewalk.

Maybe they should have smoking licenses, like liquor licenses, but with that it would probably end up being easier for more upscale places to get licensed than the seedier bars.

"Montreal hasn't yet done it."

I can't see Montreal ever banning smoking anywhere.  :smirk:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Phluck]
    #3101548 - 09/07/04 01:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think the way to get around these retarded laws would be to create 'private' clubs and sell 'memberships' at the door. (which would just replace the cover charge)...as far as I know, the authorities would be able to do little if anything to stop what members did in their own private clubs.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineJaRRn
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3101620 - 09/07/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Just remember in Australia, we do not have a bill of rights. We dont have the right to free speech.  Nor bare arms. Nor anything the government of the day wants.

ghey'day mate.


:lol:


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: JaRRn]
    #3101642 - 09/07/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Ouch. Sucks to be you, huh?

I thought the whole Oz-as-a-penal-colony thing ended a long time ago. Time to get some rights, bro.

pinky


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InvisibleHanky
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Re: Queensland Bans Smoking [Re: Phred]
    #3101941 - 09/07/04 04:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I just read the post in OTD about this thread and dropped over to add my 2 cents worth.

The anti tobacco lobby in this country is very powerful and IMO overly funded. They spend the vast bulk of this money on Glossy pamphlets,Bill boards and TV advertising. I dont know about other smokers but the few times i've attempted to beat my addiction i hated seeing this advertising everywhere as it just exacerbated my withdrawl symptoms (I'm very aggressive to the point of being homocidal during nicotein withdrawls.

One thing that does help with my withdrawls is patches, yet they cost more per week than cigarettes,go figure? If the anti tobbaco lobby put that advertising money into subsidising patches and other products that assist a person to quit then i'd support their motives.

The bans that are sweeping australia in regards to smoking in any public building are stop gap measures that do nothing to address the key issue which is addiction. They could ban smoking everywhere except private bathrooms and smokers would become amphibious in a few generations,they wouldn't quit. Untill they direct their efforts at treating addiction thru subsidising quiting aids and researching newer more effective methods of treating nicotene addiction they may aswell use their annual budget to roll cigaretts!


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Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]




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