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InvisibleMoonshoe
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no will to live?
    #3369168 - 11/16/04 04:10 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

in the book conversations with god, the author talks about how if you have ever smoked a cigarette or drinken alcohol, you have 'no will to live'

i guess what he is saying is that if you truly loved and cherished life, you would never do anything that you knew was likely to shorten it.

on the surface a sensible argument. but, i dont know if i agree.

It seems to me that LIFE is dangerous to life. every single action carries with it some risks. Risk taking for reward is a big part of what life is all about.

By this same logic you could say that extreme sportsman, mountain climbers, cliff jumpers, skate boarders, have no will to live, but it seems to me these people have the MOST will to live, they want to grab life by the throat and choke the goodness out of it. they want to fully embrace what it is to be alive.

so where do you draw the line? when does something stop being life affirming and become life destroying? when do you go from living life to the fullest, or 'on the edge' to being basically suicidal in action?

do you think drinkers and smokers and dangerous drug users have no will to live?


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Offlinedeff
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Re: no will to live? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3369204 - 11/16/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

quality or quantity?

or, are both relative, and therefore the same?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: no will to live? [Re: deff]
    #3369256 - 11/16/04 04:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Good questions def!

i'd rather live a shorter action packed risk/reward life then a longer uneventful one.

I think in the book, he was just reffering to stuff that pulls you away from life or whats used as a security blanket or crutch to lean on when you give up. There is no reward to drinking and smoking. maybe you can argue one, I can't.

There is reward to accomplishment that is derived from skating and moutain climbing yada yada.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: no will to live? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3369295 - 11/16/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I really cannot argue a 'reward' for anything, outside that of a perceived 'pleasentness' resulting from a previous cause.

so in that aspect, whatever makes you feel good, is as much as a reward as anything else (drinking and smoking included).

the objective reward concept stems from the notion that changing consensual reality is the only "productive" and "worth-while" endeavor in life. anything else is a waste... ect.

really, I think it's up to the person. for me, s&p can be seen as a reward at the end of my day, as well as occassional marijuana-enhanced meditations :laugh:. it's all up to the person though :smile:


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Offlineballs
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Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: no will to live? [Re: deff]
    #3369521 - 11/16/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

No one knows how long there life will last, but everyone ponders this question. Your born, grow up, experiance life, then die. One chance.

I have a very high appreciation for life, but I smoke, drink, eat, and jump off things with my skateboard. I feel that sometimes I have taken my body over the limit in ALL things I do, but that does not affect the way I think of life. Life is very dangerous and yes, one wrong step could change a whole bunch of things. But we have our whole life to live, so take it in small steps, enjoy it, put those silly worries to the side, and do whatever the hell you want! (well sorta)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: no will to live? [Re: balls]
    #3369552 - 11/16/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"the will to live, is the knowledge of death"
-unknon :P

""i guess what he is saying is that if you truly loved and cherished life, you would never do anything that you knew was likely to shorten it.""

if that was case, could it be, if you don't knew what was likely to shorten your life, it would not? like ignorance would lead to 'eternal' life?

:confused: :thumbup: :heart:


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Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (11/16/04 05:45 PM)


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OfflineJCoke
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Registered: 02/17/04
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Re: no will to live? [Re: Gomp]
    #3371638 - 11/16/04 11:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i don't think one beer or one cigaritte would shorten anyones life at all, now alot of beers and alot of cigs maybe, but one? fuck that.


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hello, your name is life on earth
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"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


Edited by JCoke (11/17/04 12:02 AM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: no will to live? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3372068 - 11/17/04 01:16 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
in the book conversations with god, the author talks about how if you have ever smoked a cigarette or drinken alcohol, you have 'no will to live'

i guess what he is saying is that if you truly loved and cherished life, you would never do anything that you knew was likely to shorten it.

on the surface a sensible argument. but, i dont know if i agree.

It seems to me that LIFE is dangerous to life. every single action carries with it some risks. Risk taking for reward is a big part of what life is all about.

By this same logic you could say that extreme sportsman, mountain climbers, cliff jumpers, skate boarders, have no will to live, but it seems to me these people have the MOST will to live, they want to grab life by the throat and choke the goodness out of it. they want to fully embrace what it is to be alive.

so where do you draw the line? when does something stop being life affirming and become life destroying? when do you go from living life to the fullest, or 'on the edge' to being basically suicidal in action?

do you think drinkers and smokers and dangerous drug users have no will to live?




No, I disagree with that premise.  People enjoy doing different things that might shorten their life spans, but they enjoy life, no less.

Take for instance bungy-jumping.  If I jump from a cliff, with just a mere rope (that just so happens to have a springy quality to it) tied to my waist, and it saves my life at the last second, does this mean I have no will to live? 

Or if I get in a tiny little boat and jump off into deep waters, I might suffocate, or get the bends, or come to surface to find my boat gone.  Does this mean I have no will to live?

I know that doing things like smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol hurt our bodies, and shorten our life spans.  But this doesn't mean that we have no will to live.

Look at people who are totally into health but they do things like race cars, sky-dive, have sex with people within unknown sexual histories, etc.

We all do things that could shorten our lives.  Just because cigs and alcohol are notorious for shortening our lives doesn't mean only that only use of THOSE things are indicative of our lack of will to survive.

Of course, moderation is the key with regard to cigs and alcohol.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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