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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BleaK]
    #3328367 -

Ok here it is: mass warps space.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3328384 -

""if force is an interaction, what is the cause of this interaction.""

change?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3328692 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Ok here it is: mass warps space.


AGAIN, this is an obersvation.
HOW, AND WHY?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BleaK]
    #3328761 -

I am not a physicist, but I am well read on such things. I could care less about the math involved which is what we would have to resort to. Nevertheless, most experts agree that this is most likely the case, and until I hear otherwise I accept it as an explanation. When science advances I will change accordingly. Every time Einstein's work has been tested it has held up, so for now I will take his word for it. Space travel has demonsrtrated the correctness of his theory on many occasions. Comparing clocks aboard spacecraft with Earth bound ones has shown that time slows down with the increase in speed, and satellite technology has recently demonstrated that the Earth warps the space around it...so I would certainly take Einstein's word (though dead he may be) over anybody on this forum.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3328922 -

Thanks for adding to your comment Blue. I think about it a lot, defying gravity that is, and I don't know why. I'll be the first to buy your flying carpet shield when it comes out.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BleaK]
    #3328936 -

BleaK said:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Ok here it is: mass warps space.


AGAIN, this is an obersvation.
HOW, AND WHY?



"Mass warps space" is not an observation.
"I dropped my glass and fell and hit the floor" is an observation.

As far as how gravity affects objects; there is a hypothetical partical called a graviton that's supposed to pass between objects exerting gravity on one another. However, this is an imaginary thing sombody made up because it made sense to him; not something based on observation; though there may eventually be observations consistent with the existance of gravitons that aren't consistent with any other explanation for the transmission of gravity that people are able to immagine.

As far as why gravity affects objects, I can't figure out what you're asking. Could you give an example of a possible (though not necessarily true) answer to your question?

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: phi1618]
    #3329291 -

im gonna state and restate this as long as nessisary.

there is a difference between measuring the effects of force, and understanding why there is force.

phi1618;
graviton ? how does it exert? why does it exert? by what means does it derrive its energy? by what means does it act in the way it acts?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BleaK]
    #3329317 -

All good questions - if you want answers to these questions:
how does it exert?
by what means does it derive its energy?
by what means does it act the way it acts?
you should talk to a particle physisist.


Still, I don't understand these questions:
why does it exert?


Why does gravity exist? is this your question?
Why does anything exist?
What possible answer could there be to this question? Can you even suggest one?

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: phi1618]
    #3329345 -

i feel im being misunderstood.

i dont know how i can explain this more clearly..

a physicist creates equations to describe observations.
he does not explain how the things he is observing do what they do.
he is simply saying, "if this, then this"

i am saying, that that is not a description of how anything works.

when i ask how does gravity work.
im not asking for an equation to predict, in some meaningless unit, how much is or would be depending on the said circumstances.

i want to know why there is attraction.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Jalruza]
    #3329348 -

Ewok said:
blah blah blah Trendal.


Come on now, we should look at it from multidemensional point of view.

Take 9D model into consideration. Gravity is pure 1D Gaia.

Have you ever FELT gravity while tripping, have you ever tried to get uner the skin of gravity? On shrooms or Salvia.

The best way to get to know gravity is to do just that.

When you relax you body, every part of you body and let gravity take its course, interesting things happen...


I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!

UNTIL RIGHT NOW I've never been able describe my experience from the last (only) time I've done Salvia..  it was like everything felt really heavy, yet not, almost as if there was a constant downpour of water over my whole mass, except that water war gravity... 

wow.  flashback.  :smile:


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BleaK]
    #3329370 -

I don't think that's really a question that can be answered.

Though here is a kinda interesting thought:
If things were different than they are (ie. no gravity), would we be here to see them?

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: phi1618]
    #3329380 -

phi1618 said:
I don't think that's really a question that can be answered.


thus science does not explain.
Quote:
Though here is a kinda interesting thought:
If things were different than they are (ie. no gravity), would we be here to see them?

doubt it  :grin:


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BleaK]
    #3329400 -

Science does explain things, but in bits an pieces.
It simply doesn't, and can't have, the answers to any question you could possibly think of.

For instance, "why do things fall down"
Answer: "because they are pulled toward the earth"
"Why?"
"Because massy objects attract each other."
"Why?"
"Because... ummm... well space is warped, or maybe gravitons move between the objects?"
Eventually (maybe even today; I'm not really up on my theoretical physics) we will/may have a good answer for the question "why to massy objects attract?"; and there will be more questions inherent in the answer to that question.


But if you ask, "Why is there anything at all", you've forever moved beyond the domain of science. There simply is no testable hypothesis you could make to answer that question.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: phi1618]
    #3329416 -

Quote:
Have you ever FELT gravity while tripping, have you ever tried to get uner the skin of gravity? On shrooms or Salvia.


reminds me of a Monster Magnet song:
"Gravity is a strange sensation..."

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: phi1618]
    #3329418 -

phi1618 said:
But if you ask, "Why is there anything at all", you've forever moved beyond the domain of science. There simply is no testable hypothesis you could make to answer that question.


i thought scientists liked challenges?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BleaK]
    #3329746 -

They do, but a challenge is different from chasing an impossibility. The goal of science is not to answer everyone's questions TODAY. The question of why gravity arises from mass is a BIG one, probably one of the biggest quetions left for science to answer...but just because we don't know it NOW doesn't mean we never will.

You seem to be asking a question for which there is no current answer, then using this lack of an answer to state that science never WILL have an answer.

As far as science only explaining our observations...what did you expect? All we have are observations! There is no other way for humans to understand what is around them than for us to observe it. Science is no different (being an offshoot of human observation) so why do you expect it to be any different?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: trendal]
    #3329840 -

Thanks guys for all your responses, this question has certainly provoked a lot of thought!

I now have a clearer understanding og GRAVITY!


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"They are trying to build a prison, for you and me to live in"

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3329910 -

:thumbup:


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: BleaK]
    #3340562 -

to get under the skin of the Gravity Effect on salvia, you get into the resonance of stacked moments: the essence of dreams and of the halucinogenic effect:
the gravity effect is the same essential effect as visual trails but only as applied to proprioception (body sense).
as a series of sensations of weight and pressure reach the brain and are sustained longer than usual (frame stacking), (not fading away as quickly as they would in a normal state of mind) then one feels the weight piling up, & one may even topple over.
it is not gravity per se, but sensory stacking:
visual - trails
memory - halucination
auditory - echoes
proprioception- gravity
temperature - heat
sensation - prickling
timing - stopped or even reversed
changing of attention field - deja vue

all are related to frame stacking (i.e. not releasing the previous frames as quickly)


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3340593 -

:thumbup:

Excellent description of the salvia experience!


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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