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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
can the government make you wear a helmet?
    #3328170 - 11/06/04 06:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Here in Ontario Canada, an MPP has pushed for a bill that forces all cyclists, in-line skaters, and skateboarders to wear a helmet on all public roads. If you don't wear a helmet, you may be fined $75. Would you support such a bill in your province / state? Although I think it's generally a good idea to wear a helmet if you are an active cyclist, roller-blader, or skater, or if you are learning to do either of those activities, but I don't believe the government should make you buy and wear a helmet if you choose not to do so. It's MY life, I can decide whether my head is in jeopardy when I take my bike down the street. I am sick of giving up my freedoms in the name of 'public safety'. I have asked my friends and my family if they would buy and wear a helmt if this law passed, all of them said 'no' except one friend who said he would because "it would be the law" type of deal.

Ontario planning helmet law
CTV.ca News Staff

The Ontario legislature is considering a bill that would require bicyclists, rollerbladers and skateboarders to wear helmets when they're travelling on public roads.

NDP MPP Michael Prue fought back tears as he spoke in favour of the bill, recalling his brother's death from a bicycling accident. He was not wearing a helmet.

"There isn't a day goes by that I don't think about him," Prue said. "There isn't a day goes by that I don't see someone on the streets in Toronto -- an adult without a helmet on their head."

Prue spoke in support of a private members bill put forward by Liberal MPP John Milloy, who lost a friend who died of head injuries after an inline skating accident.

Consumer Minister Jim Watson also spoke to personal experience, with a friend who was one of the first Canadians to die after an inline skating accident.

"Regrettably he was not wearing a helmet, and his skates got caught up in some gravel and in a matter of seconds he hit his head on the pavement and he was immediately knocked unconscious," Watson said. "I had the sad task of identifying Carl, and it was a moment that I will never forget."

It's likely that all parties will unite to support Bill 129, which would apply to cyclists, skaters, skateboarders and people using muscle-propelled vehicles such as scooters.

As the law stands now, only bicyclists under the age of 18 are required to wear a helmet. The new law would apply to all ages.
CTV News


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Anonymous

Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: chodamunky]
    #3328221 - 11/06/04 06:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I don't believe the government should make you buy and wear a helmet if you choose not to do so. It's MY life, I can decide whether my head is in jeopardy when I take my bike down the street.

this logic only applies when one is not going to be using nationalized healthcare in the event that one injured.

by making healthcare a tax-funded service, you justify government intervention in activities that may be dangerous or unhealthy.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: chodamunky]
    #3328278 - 11/06/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

what about seat belts? What about drug laws. Having to wear a helmet falls in line with other government policies that protect us from ourselves. Its not right but thats the way it is.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: ]
    #3328302 - 11/06/04 07:13 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

it also kind of makes it look like they give a damn about you


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator
 Arcade Champion: Skeleton Park

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: 1stimer]
    #3328305 - 11/06/04 07:16 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The government workers have to clean up the mess when you take a dive so they are attempting to save costs(and lives if you wanna give them that).


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: ]
    #3328325 - 11/06/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

this logic only applies when one is not going to be using nationalized healthcare in the event that one injured.

I'm paying fat taxes for this nationalized healthcare, I damn well better be entitled to it if I crack my head open. The health care system was designed to take care of these things, why should I give up my freedoms to make choices about my own safety because someone in the government lost his brother because he wasn't wearing a helmet; and now he's on a helmet crusade to protect everyone's life whether I choose to accept or not?


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator
 Arcade Champion: Skeleton Park

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: chodamunky]
    #3328329 - 11/06/04 07:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well if you are gonna choose to ride without a helmet and I choose to ride with one then your Premium should be higher than mine.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #3328357 - 11/06/04 07:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sir tripsalot said:
The government workers have to clean up the mess when you take a dive so they are attempting to save costs(and lives if you wanna give them that).




It's not that I don't agree that wearing a helmet is probably a good idea, it's just that they are making it law. Why not promote this idea by educating people through advertising, or doing some helmet safety campaign, etc. I don't like this 'it's the law, now do it' approach. Government authority is penetrating further and deeper into our personal and public lives, and this bill is just another facet of other's people's will to make decisions for you.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #3328371 - 11/06/04 07:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sir tripsalot said:
Well if you are gonna choose to ride without a helmet and I choose to ride with one then your Premium should be higher than mine.




okay, and if you slip on your snow/ice covered sidewalk or driveway during winter time your 'Premium' should be higher than the people who clean their driveway, or should the government also make it mandatory to shovel and salt your driveway?


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator
 Arcade Champion: Skeleton Park

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: chodamunky]
    #3328388 - 11/06/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It has to do with if the occurence results in material numbers. When a similar law was passed here( I think), they cited the figueres of the amount of accidents and deaths occurring from 'helmet activities' and how much could have been prevented from wearing one. The figueres were large enough to warrant a bi-law, unlike slipping on ice accidents. That said, wearing a helmet makes you look like a dork and I'd never wear one.


Basically, ER people complained enough about people with smashed heads bogging them down.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Anonymous

Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: chodamunky]
    #3328472 - 11/06/04 08:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

someone in the government lost his brother because he wasn't wearing a helmet; and now he's on a helmet crusade to protect everyone's life whether I choose to accept or not?

sucks.

if it weren't for the fact that if you become sick or injured, other people will be forced to provide you with medical care, the decision of whether or not to wear a seatbelt or a helmet would be an individual decision. you've made it a social one.


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: chodamunky]
    #3328505 - 11/06/04 09:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If people are willing to do these activities with the risk of cracking their skull and they dont want to wear a helmet... let them crack their skull open. Although I can see the force used because of government healthcare. However, in California, or at least San Diego we are obligated to wear a helmet unless we want a ticket. I think the ticket is like 100 dollars or something around there.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: chodamunky]
    #3329649 - 11/07/04 07:14 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What's surprising about this?

When people ask for a nanny state, they get a nanny state.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: chodamunky]
    #3329658 - 11/07/04 07:24 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

while i can see arguments against seatbelt and helmet laws, the bottomline is its just a fucking seatbelt/helmet. DEAL WITH IT. and people say liberals are whiny. yeesh.


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3329660 - 11/07/04 07:26 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

oh and time for a new sig btw lds :wink:


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: Tao]
    #3329672 - 11/07/04 07:35 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TaoTeChing said:
oh and time for a new sig btw lds :wink:



It appears I was a step ahead of you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleSorted
Monkee
Registered: 12/27/98
Posts: 301
Loc: UK
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3329711 - 11/07/04 08:28 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Cycle use drops considerably when helmets are made compulsory, so they might stop a few head injuries but the overall health level of a country falls. Unless the ex-cyclists take up other activities.. preferably not jogging as a pedestrian has more risk of getting a head injury than a cyclist..


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: Sorted]
    #3329752 - 11/07/04 09:23 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

can you cite either of those two claims?

and how long would cycle use drop for? until people can find a 15-20$ used helmet? its really not that big a deal, like i said before. and once everyone has to do it, they won't feel as stupid wearing one.


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: Tao]
    #3329760 - 11/07/04 09:34 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TaoTeChing said:
while i can see arguments against seatbelt and helmet laws, the bottomline is its just a fucking seatbelt/helmet. DEAL WITH IT. and people say liberals are whiny. yeesh.



While I agree with some of the above posters that Canadians are getting what they deserve in their desire for a total nanny state (I look forward to the mandatory knee/elbow pads and mouth guards...), this law, like seatbelt laws, is yet another violation of individual liberty. How many times must liberty be violated before you DON'T say 'DEAL WITH IT?' What if the Canadian government mandates a government official be present everytime a Canadian wants to drive his/her car, for safety purposes -- would you acquiesce to that? Perhaps the Canadian government can mandate every living residence have completely padded walls and floors; would you be fine with that? I think you see where I'm going here. I take pleasure in seeing them moan about this after they so readily gave up their liberty with regard to healthcare, but how far is it going to go? Ever read Anthem?


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: can the government make you wear a helmet? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3329923 - 11/07/04 11:13 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

heh, I just heard on the news they are trying to pass another Bill, you HAVE to go to school until you are 18 years of age. Again, I say it's probably a good idea to stay in school, but wtf they are making this law?


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