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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Best government on earth?
    #4654606 - 09/13/05 01:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Norway votes to spend oil riches on welfare state

The Norwegian opposition party regained power in the oil-rich country's general election yesterday, according to exit polls, after wooing voters with pledges to plough cash into their already generous welfare state system.

Even before the latest surge in oil prices, Norway was ranked for five consecutive years by the United Nations as the best place to live in the world. Yet its low unemployment and a much-envied social security system have not stopped the issue of how much the government spends from dominating debate in the world's third-largest oil exporter.

The Labour Party leader, Jens Stoltenberg, a 46-year-old economist who briefly served as Prime Minster between 2000 and 2001, looked set to regain power in a narrow victory, having fought a campaign which held that more could be done to eliminate the country's remaining social problems.

With 90 per cent of the vote counted last night, the indications were that the Labour party had won 88 seats of the 169 seat parliament, Mr Stoltenberg fell short of declaring a victory, but he said that should his party win, he would form a "red-green" alliance with the Green Party and Socialist Left and Centre Party.

The alliance wants to spend more oil cash on jobs, care for the elderly and education and a key plank of the parties campaign was that the tax cuts introduced by Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik have served only to help the rich.

In contrast, the centre-right governing coalition, led by Mr Bondevik, a 58-year-old Lutheran clergyman, had fought on a platform of lowering taxes.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article312192.ece


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Alex213]
    #4655245 - 09/13/05 03:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Best government of earth?"

I don't give a shit what Norway does with our money.

Just keep the Oil Barrels coming to this capitalistic country.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4655276 - 09/13/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
"Best government of earth?" 

I don't give a shit what Norway does with our money.

Just keep the Oil Barrels coming to this capitalistic country.




Americans not caring about the rest of the world? Only caring about their own greed? I am shocked  :nonono:


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4655285 - 09/13/05 04:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
"Best government of earth?" 

I don't give a shit what Norway does with our money.

Just keep the Oil Barrels coming to this capitalistic country.




Americans not caring about the rest of the world? Only caring about their own greed? I am shocked  :nonono:




Yeah...that's why the U.S. is the biggest contributor of aid to the rest of the world.

Now sell us all of your oil you bastards!...or else!


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Alex213]
    #4655298 - 09/13/05 04:04 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The alliance wants to spend more oil cash on jobs, care for the elderly and education



How exactly does the government spend more tax dollars on jobs?  The way to increase employment would involve lowering taxes.  And just how much more money does Norway need for education and care for the elderly?  They aren't socialist enough already?  I mean, I understand the whole "keep people from starving in the streets" justification for the welfare state, but there's got to be a point at which enough is enough.

Quote:

and a key plank of the parties campaign was that the tax cuts introduced by Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik have served only to help the rich.



Ya, all those corporate giants in that rugged capitalist country have it waaaay too easy. :rolleyes:


--------------------


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4655320 - 09/13/05 04:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm thinking about going to some of the "progressive" political groups and pro-Social Security get-togethers in my area.

The "Nation" (the magazine) has a group that meets in my area. I have a feeling that I will probably get kicked out.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4655344 - 09/13/05 04:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
"Best government of earth?" 

I don't give a shit what Norway does with our money.

Just keep the Oil Barrels coming to this capitalistic country.




Americans not caring about the rest of the world? Only caring about their own greed? I am shocked  :nonono:





lets see....

i know Norway is next to Sweden.

someone thinks Norway has the best government in the world.

And i would not be SURPRISED if San Antonio TX  (my town) has just as many people living in this city  than live in the entire Country of Norway....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Registered: 06/26/05
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4655918 - 09/13/05 06:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If Norway had a large black population, the Norwegians would find that they would become a huge black hole for all their welfare funds and resources while at the same time blaming Norwegians for all their problems and if that wasn't enough they would rob and carjack all the time.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Alex213]
    #4656821 - 09/13/05 10:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Norway has about 4.5 million people.
They also have enormous wealth (much of which comes from oil), and a substantially different culture than the US. It's not really a comparable situation.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: phi1618]
    #4659236 - 09/14/05 12:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Still has an awful lot less wealth than the US tho.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Alex213]
    #4659302 - 09/14/05 01:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Per capita GNP in Norway is greater than in the U.S. (link)


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflinePuppet1
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4659627 - 09/14/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

norway has one of the highest tax rates in the world. their a socialist state. yeah, the quality of life is high there, but you better be ready to pay out the ass for it.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Puppet1]
    #4659794 - 09/14/05 02:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, when the oil runs out they're going to be totally fucked.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4660168 - 09/14/05 03:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I doubt it...

from the CIA world factbook :
Quote:

The Norwegian economy is a prosperous bastion of welfare capitalism, featuring a combination of free market activity and government intervention. The government controls key areas, such as the vital petroleum sector (through large-scale state enterprises). The country is richly endowed with natural resources - petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals - and is highly dependent on its oil production and international oil prices, with oil and gas accounting for one-third of exports. Only Saudi Arabia and Russia export more oil than Norway. Norway opted to stay out of the EU during a referendum in November 1994; nonetheless, it contributes sizably to the EU budget. The government has moved ahead with privatization. With arguably the highest quality of life worldwide, Norwegians still worry about that time in the next two decades when the oil and gas will begin to run out. Accordingly, Norway has been saving its oil-boosted budget surpluses in a Government Petroleum Fund, which is invested abroad and now is valued at more than $150 billion. After lackluster growth of 1% in 2002 and 0.5% in 2003, GDP growth picked up to 3.3% in 2004.





Although the Norwegian gov't does have significant debt (about half that of the US, relative to the size of the economy), Norway as a whole is a creditor nation (unlike the US, which has been runing a current account deficit for the last 20 years), so even as their oil wealth runs out, they have savings to fall back on.


Sweden (which lacks Norway's oil wealth, but has it's heavy welfare state) is also doing well (relative to the US, in terms of keeping spending in line with income) financially. Their public debt is about 50% gdp - about the same as in their less socialistic neighbor, Finland, and substantially less than the US. Their net external debt is around $60 billion, as opposed to $1.4 trillion in the US.



I want to make it clear that I don't think that the US could be successful with any similar system.
As a society, we have become too corrupt. No government in the US will do more than pay lip service to the idea of serving the people. The real aim of American politicians is now to rule the people.

Whether the scandinavians can overcome their future difficulties will depend on their people, not the system they've chosen.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4660176 - 09/14/05 03:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yeah...that's why the U.S. is the biggest contributor of aid to the rest of the world.




And what would the richest superpower look like if it WASN'T the biggest contributor of aid? We have the most money duh. We don't do it cuz we're nice, we do it cuz we're rich. Big difference.

I get so sick of people trying to say how great this country is by using money for aid as an example. We have spent enough money in iraq to end world hunger for over 7 years. If you can end world hunger why not fucking do it? But no, we only spend endless amounts of cash on military which is doing nothing more than pissing off the rest of the world with it's adventures. Great future for our kids to have the rest of the world resenting them. But who cares what the world thinks? We are america! ya! Give us your oil and shut the hell up!


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4660179 - 09/14/05 03:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

And the US isn't?


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4660230 - 09/14/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If you can end world hunger why not fucking do it?

I guess the capitalist viewpoint on this would be there's no profit in feeding starving people who have no money.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Alex213]
    #4660241 - 09/14/05 03:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Don't be silly - we can't end world hunger. Any money/food/resources we send to Africa will somehow wind up in a Bank in Luxembourg or the Carribean under the name of one of the bosses of Africa. People starve there in large part because their governments steal all their shit, and give nothing in return.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Sycronica]
    #4660272 - 09/14/05 03:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
If you can end world hunger why not fucking do it?



You're not going to end world hunger with foreign aid. The world works on more than just the pittance of other countries. Systemic reforms, specifically having to do with land and taxation, are needed within Third World countries to bring growth and prosperity to their people.


--------------------


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Best government on earth? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4660354 - 09/14/05 04:04 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

So money doesn't buy food? I bet there are alot of starving people who's govt would NOT stand in the way of anyone bringing them food no strings attached

There are very few govts who would actually take the food and deprive their people of it. I think that is a sterotype we have about 3rd world countries. We think their govts are all corrupt so therefore we should just let them rot. Fact is there is MUCH more to it than that. Our govt wants the world in the condition it is in. It works in their favor to keep them at the top. They could end world hunger, maybe not in every single country, but in over 99% of them. And when the countries that block aid see how we have helped other countries with "just food" they would soon open up for us too.

But it's never going to happen, cuz the old white hairs in congress think the only way they can change the world is by bombing it into submission.


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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