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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: GRAVITY [Re: trendal]
    #3324714 -

Isn't science just another way to describe the universe?

I mean, its filled with descriptions of the way things have worked before and continue to seem to work. But that is no guarentee that each specific result will happen every time.

Does science attempt prove something did/could happen or will happen?

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: RedEyeSamurai]
    #3324787 -

I mean, its filled with descriptions of the way things have worked before and continue to seem to work. But that is no guarentee that each specific result will happen every time.

Does science attempt prove something did/could happen or will happen?

Not exactly, but sometimes this is done as a way of reaching a better understanding of something else. Science exists mostly to understand why things happen the way they do...predictive power is only a side-effect of knowing how something works, not the main point. Science does not (or should not) state that something will happen FOR SURE. Instead we like to use probabilities..."if A and B are true, then C should occur".

Fortunately for Science, the "fundamental" laws of existence don't seem to change over time or from place to place. An experiment performed in Russia will obtain the same results as the SAME experiment performed in Peru. We can't be entirely sure, but we are pretty sure the same holds true for the entire universe. The data we collect from the far reaches of the universe all seems to support this theory.

Science is a progression of ideas, not an endpoint.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: trendal]
    #3324798 -

"We can't be entirely sure, but we are pretty sure the same holds true for the entire universe"

Observed universe, or all-that-is?

I see no reason to be sure of this other than as encouragement towards the scientific effort


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Re: GRAVITY [Re: deff]
    #3324924 -

It almost definitely holds true for the observed universe, and by inference SHOULD hold true for the rest of the universe.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: trendal]
    #3324962 -

I see no reason for the should, is what I'm saying.

I agree it appears to hold true for our observed reality, but science has a major flaw. It assumes human observation is somehow objective, when really it is as subjective as anything else. What we observe versus what actually exists (if anything can be said to objectively *exist*) could be way off.

It's all built around an assumption which I personally do not fully agree with. That's not to say that science isn't a great tool in learning about our *observations*, but 'infering' this information to an objective level seems way too ambitious :smile:


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Re: GRAVITY [Re: deff]
    #3325030 -

Ahh, but there's the key! :wink:

As all our theories are based on observation in the first place, all inferences from these observations deal only with other observations.

Ie: all of the known universe which we have observed appears to obey the same set of physical laws. From this we can infer that other parts of the universe, if observed, will appear to obey the same laws.

Also, it isn't exactly HUMANS who do the observing. We create tools, the tools do the observation, then we read the output from the tools and use the data to construct a theory for why we observed the data which we did. Science is not a study of what is, it is a study of why we observe things the way we do.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: deff]
    #3325040 -

""I agree it appears to hold true for our observed reality""

observed reality, not want to sound cocky here, but care to explain that expression? i do not get it on this one,.. and her is one why?:

http://www.grand-illusions.com/dragon.htm <-- look at that, and if you got change coming, (got time?) you should print it out and assemble one, then, whit one eye closed, look at the moving head, then put your finger on its snout, what you could see is you are touching it, but the finger twist it, and the weird part is you could eve lift it, even though you see you are touching it from above, well, I'm just saying we do not look at reality, reality is just a way of seeing it?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Gomp]
    #3325101 -

Well I think there is a concrete, rational, "Reality" which is entirely external to human perception/observation. So "observed reality" is the human perception of Reality, which may not be exactly the same as the "true Reality".


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: trendal]
    #3325116 -

""Well I think there is a concrete, rational, "Reality" which is entirely external to human perception/observation""

it is what it is? :P

gravity is it keeping you in place, or is it keeping it in place?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: trendal]
    #3325140 -

So has there been any thoughts on gravity ever breaking apart and a switching of masses takes place. If some sort of magnetic field holds us in place how do we have the ability to walk? How do we have the ability to run?

Try holding yourself in space. Try holding yourself to the earth. Try holding yourself to another planet.

If the thoughts of my mind can produce a tremendous void of thought. It could possible produce an experience of such I have explained above. Do we need physics to prove it? Or would you rather sit back and enjoy the experience?

Always depends on what kind of person you are, the analytical mind will process information till it's time to pass that information on. I think that one day all information out there is being gathered by other masses. Time to go think about this for a while.

Peace,
Droz


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: trendal]
    #3325188 -

Ok, then I agree with you trendal.

I just notice that many people supporting science view it as something absolute, something external to human perception and subjectivity.

All we have is observation, so naturally, science, which integrates observations into reproducible data is the best 'tool' that we have.

It's just easy to get caught up into thinking of us fitting into the scientific framework, rather than it fitting into our perception.

:smile:


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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Droz]
    #3325192 -

Well as we said earlier, gravity is a WEAK force. You take the gravity produced by all the mass in the Earth, and you are still able to overcome its grip with your muscles (even if only temporary). A small fridge magnet can overcome it and puck up peices of metal. The weakest of all the forces, but also the most far-reaching! The gravitational curvature of space NEVER reaches zero, just falls off as the distance from the center of mass increases. Even if you were the ONLY thing in existence, floatin in a spacesuit, the curvature is still there - from the mass in your body.

This could mean that what we think of as "space", the 3-d expanse we seem to exist in, is DIRECTLY linked to the gravitational force. One cannot exist without the other. In effect, the entire concept of "space" becomes useless. There is no such thing as a true vacuume, and the possibility of "nothing" existing anywhere is denied. "Space" does not exist, it's just a concept we've created to describe the apparent separation of physical objects.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: deff]
    #3325203 -

I just notice that many people supporting science view it as something absolute, something external to human perception and subjectivity.

I completely agree!

I think it's more of a recent thing, though. As materialism became part of everyone's lives, I think some people turned to science to give materialism validity. They gave up the idea of science as a tool as started using it as a religion.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: trendal]
    #3325237 -

To me the atmosphere must hold itself somehow, but also it allows things to come in, maybe there is a planet that spins fast enough that it has a sort of shield around it that keeps things from entering.

Maybe the sun is spinning so fast that the shield created is combustion(another word for creation of a fire, if you know what i'm talking about let me know, please) or just your thoughts on the matter.


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Droz]
    #3325274 -

Trendal what about the possibility of mass star exchange. Say the sun starts to die down after hundreds of thousands of eyons. What it wants held together known as the milky way galaxy soon breaks apart as a larger galaxy expands. Expansion of galaxies. Now what if all the suns communicate with each sun in different galaxies as well. Maybe not but it was just a thought. Mass must have some form of communication with itself and other masses of objects. Perhaps that is what gravity is.


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Droz]
    #3325444 -

if you drop water from say a thousand feet, would it before it hit the ground have become a round ball at some point? and is that the gravity of the water ball, or the gravity of the earth is is falling towards or is it any? and what if it if its nether of the mentioned '(to you)' what would happen?

flipping a 10 gallon bucket of water from a plane, what force effect how? i kinda feel i got my own little personal gravity or something :P?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Droz]
    #3325454 -

The sun will "die" in about 5 billion years, but it will not cease to exist or disappear. First it will expand and turn red, until it has swallowed up the first four planets in the solar system (which includes Earth). Then it will "die" in a nova, blowing off most of its outer layers of gas and creating a nebula. New stars and planetary systems will grow out of that nebula, which is exactly how OUR solar system was born. The core of the sun will remain, cooling slowly over billions of years. Enough gravity will remain to keep the remaining planets in orbit, though at a much greater distance.

Like Moby said, we are all made of stars :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Gomp]
    #3325466 -

The water goes straight for the closest mass that is gathering you could say gravity. It gathers mass and can grow larger. I bet it even has it's own signals to send away objects as well.

Or like you said does it have it's own personal destination. Say there are life forms that choose to leave this planet and eventually float out of this existance and into another.

Two people spinning hand in hand in a circle are they creating gravity or is it defined by some other source?


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: GRAVITY [Re: Gomp]
    #3325492 -

The water's fall is resisted by the air in its way, which is why water breaks up into droplets when dropped from a height. If you drop water in a vacuume, it will fall without breaking apart AS MUCH. The water will still move around because there is no way to drop some water without spilling some of it out first. That causes turbulence in the falling water, so it moves around and can break into several large "drops".

When an object is in free-fall, the force of gravity is not acting on it :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GRAVITY [Re: Droz]
    #3325494 -

""Two people spinning hand in hand in a circle are they creating gravity or is it defined by some other source? ""

could it be like the water remaining in a bucket when you spin it round and round?

""That is accelerated motion at work, which is essentially indestinguishable from "true" Gravity. This is the essence of Einstein's Relativity.

Ie: If you shoot off in a spaceship that has no windows in it, accelerating at a constant 9.8 m/s^2, there is no way you can tell if you are actually out in space accelerating, or still sitting on the launch pad experiencing the Earth's gravity. Acceleration = Gravity, essentially.""


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