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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Debate Addiction
    #3259339 - 10/21/04 05:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Can anyone else here relate to me with this? I find that whenever I get in a debate with someone(particularly here on the Shroomery), I always have to have the last word. I end up dragging on long debates with people to a point where I don't enjoy it anymore, but I feel like if I stop replying, it will seem like I'm admitting defeat. I can usually only walk away from it when the other side's argument is so weak as to be transparent to everyone. As long as the other side brings up valid objections, I feel obligated to continue addressing them, no matter how much of my time I waste in doing so when I'd rather just drop it. Sometimes, I have a moment of clarity where I realize that this is only because my ego is so wrapped up in being right that I lose sight of the fact that it doesn't matter if others think I'm right or wrong, and that my purpose in debating should be to learn new ideas, rather than convince someone else of mine. Being right or wrong isn't as important as the knowledge gained through the experience.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Debate Addiction [Re: silversoul7]
    #3259403 - 10/21/04 06:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hi, I'm Swami and I'm a debataholic. Here is my story...  :syringe:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTwirling
Barred Spiral
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Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 2,468
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Debate Addiction [Re: silversoul7]
    #3259430 - 10/21/04 06:52 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Being right or wrong isn't as important as the knowledge gained through the experience.




And really, that should be the goal of a good debate on a messageboard. Unfortuntely, debating on the internet is like talking about the size of your penis on the internet; suddendly you're cock of the walk.

But yeah, what you're saying is very true. Isn't it funny how much we care about how well we come off? At some point, an argument isn't even about the original topic anymore, it's just about winning.


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineMushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Registered: 09/26/03
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Re: Debate Addiction [Re: silversoul7]
    #3259472 - 10/21/04 07:25 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"Sometimes, I have a moment of clarity where I realize that this is only because my ego is so wrapped up in being right that I lose sight of the fact that it doesn't matter if others think I'm right or wrong, and that my purpose in debating should be to learn new ideas, rather than convince someone else of mine. Being right or wrong isn't as important as the knowledge gained through the experience. "

You're thinking negatively! Stop.

Did you ever think that perhaps you misplaced your motivations?
You obviously believe your opinion to be correct -- could it be you are simply trying to correct another's incorrect belief?
Teachers don't simply throw their hands up and give up if students continually argue that 2+2=7, or that the correct spelling is k-a-t.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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InvisibleCJay
Dark Stranger
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Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
Re: Debate Addiction [Re: silversoul7]
    #3259514 - 10/21/04 08:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I enjoy being challenged and being made to think things over, look into things more and see where it goes...Sometimes one can be suprised if one is willing to be, other times one realises one's instincts are correct.

Or whatever.....who knows what IS anyway. No-one really eh?

Besides this site cracks me up! :tongue2:

(and makes work a damn lot more bearable...heheheh)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Debate Addiction [Re: CJay]
    #3259592 - 10/21/04 09:16 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

(and makes work a damn lot more bearable...heheheh)

We are monitoring your internet usage, CJay. ~ The Management  :eek:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleCJay
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Registered: 02/02/04
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Re: Debate Addiction [Re: Swami]
    #3259632 - 10/21/04 09:40 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I do not doubt it :shiftyeyes:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Debate Addiction [Re: silversoul7]
    #3260118 - 10/21/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hmmmmmm

I have a couple of ideas to consider. If the intent is to teach, be like Bruce Lee was about it. He said that he could not teach people, but he could only help them to explore themselves.

He let go of his need to define what was right for others, and helped then to find what was right and what worked for them based on who they are and what they wish to accomplish.


He was an awesome explorer of his own inherant nature discovering his own strengths and weakness, and worked to turn his personal weakness into strengths, and master focus with his strengths so as not become destructive with them, but rather effective.

Then there is the take on the need to be right in one of the Convos' with God books by Walshe which was good stuff.

He talked about how all wars were driven by the need to be right and how people can be driven so mad by that need they can kill over it. Thats not healthy.

He then talked about how truth expands upon itself. He said that everyone is right, based on what they know at the time. As new information and experience comes, we change our idea of the truth and are right once again.

He said, if you take this into consideration for yourself and others, everyone can be right where they are, and move from being right to right to right, without wrong judgments having to come into the picture. From there, the art of compromise, understanding and acceptance becomes easier.

It's how win wins are created instead of win-losses.

People forget that the need to conquer, dominate and control, is really related to the self regarding self mastery. When we feel a lacking of it internally due to a yet unknown inner weakness, we compensate by externalising it when we find weak prey.

In other words, we tend to want to manage others the way we manage ourselves and we tend to act on in when our own self management abilities begin to slide. The need to control comes from a lack of self control.

You can't control the self if you don't know the self. Hunting down and taming your wild demons is an artform itself. But as you do it, they will no longer be there to be unleashed on you or others.

Sometimes, someone can work us up and we say, "I'll show them, and we call on our demons to kick some ass. What did we really show them?"

All we showwed them was our need to discapline them where we have not yet gained discapline over the self. It's the discapline of allowance.

"If I can't have it, no one can." Look at the parent who scolds the child for blowing bubbles in their drink out at a restaurant. The adult thinks, if I am not allowed to, neither are you.

Actual self discapline is more about allowance then it is about non allowance in my book.

When you can allow yourself to be as you are and think as you do and allow others the same liberty and freedoms, you hold the keys to so many jail cells, your own and others.

I'll stop now. This is the sort of self discapline I am currently working on and have been. What a work in progress.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineWhiteRussian
The Silence islouder then youthink
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 441
Loc: In your head :P
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Debate Addiction [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3260162 - 10/21/04 01:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

That was inspirational jiggy, thanx for posting that :smile:


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aaaaaahhhhh


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,866
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Re: Debate Addiction [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3260180 - 10/21/04 01:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"it takes more admitting defeat than it does winning, in a way the defeated is the winner."
-unknown

as he gained ?


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Debate Addiction [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3260193 - 10/21/04 01:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

you're welcome!

And remember this about the keys of allowance. To the extent we have ourselves locked up with them, we will also want to lock others up the same.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Debate Addiction [Re: Gomp]
    #3260204 - 10/21/04 01:22 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
"it takes more admitting defeat than it does winning, in a way the defeated is the winner."
-unknown

as he gained ?




That ties into something Bruce Lee commented on. He asked, why does everyone ask me how to win? Why does no one ever ask me, how to loose, how to be defeated and how to die?"

His philosophy was, when you know how to do that, in spirit, you have already won, and it makes you the stronger person in reality.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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