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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,329
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The art of debate.
    #4027444 - 04/07/05 06:55 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I want to ask people's opinion on a subject...particularly the opinion of those who fancy themselves to be top notch debaters. When I disagree ... or agree with a post, and someone disagrees with me, I feel compelled to counteract every post of theirs (disagreeing with me) with a counter argument all the way to the bitter end of the thread. Something in me often says "You said your piece now let be; your opinion is known", but I often cannot heed it. Should one post a simple statement of disagreement or agreement, or should one fight it out to the end? Often such exercises seem to become a matter of endurance. Opinions?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSmallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: The art of debate. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4027497 - 04/07/05 07:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Ideally one should only have to state their opinions once. In practice, sometimes people use deceptive, tricky debating tactics which need to be exposed for what they are, which occasionally requires numerous posts.

hahaha this shit is funny.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4027530 - 04/07/05 07:13 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

In practice, sometimes people use deceptive, tricky debating tactics ...

Such as intimating (even in a "joking" way) that one is a terrorist? Still waiting for an apology.  :mad2:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinerogue_pixie
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Registered: 07/28/04
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: Swami]
    #4027555 - 04/07/05 07:16 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

If you are like that it shows you're passionate about your beliefs, which is a good thing, unless you're a racist homo or something.
Hope that stage doesn't pass for you and you keep the faith.


--------------------
'It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.' ~ J. Krishnamurti


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OfflineShagshow
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Registered: 12/23/04
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4027598 - 04/07/05 07:25 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Reasoning back and forth leads to the highest truth. Don't enter into debate with such an adversarial attitude, enter into the 'discussion' trying to further your knowledge and perspectives on a particular subject.


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OfflineSmallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: Swami]
    #4027634 - 04/07/05 07:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
In practice, sometimes people use deceptive, tricky debating tactics ...

Such as intimating (even in a "joking" way) that one is a terrorist? Still waiting for an apology.  :mad2:




Eh? Where did I do that? Show me the linkage so that I'll be able to figure out how big of an apology I owe you. Maybe I was drinking too much rum and coke, I sure wouldn't have meant any real insult towards you. I apologise in advance, but still show me what you're talking about plz.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: The art of debate. [Re: Shagshow]
    #4027636 - 04/07/05 07:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Understanding sometimes gives way to common ground between people....  Sometimes thru questions, another person might find a newer better "truth" from within from pondering a question presented to them....    :heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: The art of debate. [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4027641 - 04/07/05 07:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Smallworlds said:
Eh? Where did I do that? Show me the linkage so that I'll be able to figure out how big of an apology I owe you. Maybe I was drinking too much rum and coke, I sure wouldn't have meant any real insult towards you. I apologise in advance, but still show me what you're talking about plz.




It was the explosives in the church comment....  Kind of a sick accusation....  :heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineLux
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Registered: 04/21/04
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4027642 - 04/07/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I see writing and debate both independantly as forms of reflection, which happen to be combined here resulting in a reflection and refinement of thought which is further tested when posted, seen by others and responded to. The hope at this point would be to take it as that, a tool for reflection and treat it as such going through the process over again with those things in mind. Many times however, we do not think in such a hopeful way. At times we may become attached with these idea's, we may come to think of them as absolute and become insulted when they are tested. We may have a fear of being seen a certain way, such as of proven wrong instead of being superior. I would see these latter cases as stemming from the ego, or from egotistical reasons.

So then I do not consider it a matter of how long the debate goes on, but instead why it goes on at all? From where does it stem? That, in my eyes is the important question.


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OfflineShagshow
Sit on It

Registered: 12/23/04
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4027644 - 04/07/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thats what I just said Emotion....so we agree..;0


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OfflineSmallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster

Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4027650 - 04/07/05 07:37 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

eMotionALLmotion said:
Quote:

Smallworlds said:
Eh? Where did I do that? Show me the linkage so that I'll be able to figure out how big of an apology I owe you. Maybe I was drinking too much rum and coke, I sure wouldn't have meant any real insult towards you. I apologise in advance, but still show me what you're talking about plz.






It was the explosives in the church comment....  Kind of a sick accusation....  :heart:




Oh O.K. yes I agree, and I apologise Swami. You're right, it was intended only as a joke, but I certainly retract the statement in it's entirety. :heart:


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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OfflineShagshow
Sit on It

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Re: The art of debate. [Re: Shagshow]
    #4027651 - 04/07/05 07:37 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"reflection and refinement" another way of saying it...sweetness, at least some people realize debating doesn't have to be so personal.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: The art of debate. [Re: Shagshow]
    #4027666 - 04/07/05 07:42 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Kinda~, both can lead to the same result....  If you were to ask someone why they feel the way they do, and guide them with questions instead of personal opinions to your own "truth", sometimes they(or both) find the higher "truth" on their own....  In that way, there is no "force", nor resistance to someone elses reasoning....  So I agree in half, but in whole, hopefully understanding of a higher truth is achieved by both, or all participating, or observing....  :heart:

(does that even make any sense...?)  :lol:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineShagshow
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4027673 - 04/07/05 07:45 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

What you just described is called the "Socratic Method" i'm sure you know who invented it. You have to know what/what way to ask the questions. It is a great way to show people the light though. Or help them with some some specs ha.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: The art of debate. [Re: Shagshow]
    #4027705 - 04/07/05 07:58 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I am still learning how to ask the right questions, and with the least amount of words....  Sometimes when you ask the questions, you don't even need answers....  As sometimes those questions plant seeds of thought....  If those thoughts are "watered", they grow....  And then the light just may shine....!    :sun:

Never heard of the "Socratic Method" tag before....  I just noticed this seems to work with people I have talked to over the last few months....  It *seems* to work the best sometimes....  As a question *almost* never hurts anyone....    :heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4027711 - 04/07/05 08:01 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

eMotionALLmotion said:
Yeah, I am still learning how to ask the right questions, and with the least amount of words....  Sometimes when you ask the questions, you don't even need answers....  As sometimes those questions plant seeds of thought....  If those thoughts are "watered", they grow....  And then the light just may shine....!    :sun:

Never heard of the "Socratic Method" tag before....  I just noticed this seems to work with people I have talked to over the last few months....  It *seems* to work the best sometimes....  As a question *almost* never hurts anyone....    :heart:




Personally I prefer it when people come at me straight forward rather than with a carefully calculated set of questions that I'm not supposed to be able to escape from. :shrug:


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4027720 - 04/07/05 08:04 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Like in PA&L someone recently asked me "Do you know what a religion is?"

I'm like thinkin' WTF, what the hell kind of a sidetrack question is that?

The issue was whether the Pope should endorse condom use, and I get shit like that to smokescreen the discussion.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/17/03
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4027728 - 04/07/05 08:07 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I think the first rule of debating is not to take disagreement personally. At least that's what adults do, anyway. There have been many people with whom I've disagreed, but that doesn't mean I think any less of them as a person. Ad Hominem arguments should be avoided as well....


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: The art of debate. [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4027741 - 04/07/05 08:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

When I have had my discussions/debates, nothing is EVER "calculated"....  It flows with the conversation as it unfolds....  It is much easier in person as opposed to being online - as sometimes I still make assumptions(based on my ignorance of certain topics) and create tangents to the actual essence of the "matter"....  Sometimes my creative trait steps in and clouds things....   
.
If I come at you with my beliefs only, I won't learn from that, and you would have no reason to trust what I am saying to be "your" truth....  Questions, and personal examples of experience with what that experience meant to "me" on a spiritual or philosophical level seems to get the point across without a "bulldozer"....  Questions are escapable, it is up to the listener....    :heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: The art of debate. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4027751 - 04/07/05 08:15 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Who ever says bullshit the most wins! :rotfl:

Seriously, people should only have to say something once. When some one comes in with replies that just force the other to repeat themselves because they are not comprehending what they are reading yet replying too, those debate/discussion need to die quick. The redundancy gets boring to read.

If new questions and information keep coming in, then they are enjoyable to read and engage in. To the extent you feel like you don't have to repeat yourself, you know your words are being understood, even if not agreed with and its worth continuing as a broadening of understanding is taking place.

Just my two cents.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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