Home | Community | Message Board

Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Aldous Huxley, Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflineDead Shaman

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 172
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Utopian Society
    #322573 - 05/21/01 05:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone have any ideas?

"And then you will realize the truth; there is no spoom."

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #322604 - 05/21/01 06:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

To have a utopian society, you must first have a utopian people.

Thoughts follow my vision and dance in the sun

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDead Shaman

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 172
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #322643 - 05/21/01 07:10 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Through a utopian society, we will breed a utopian people, not the other way around.

"And then you will realize the truth; there is no spoom."

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 257
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #322661 - 05/21/01 07:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone have any ideas?

Here are a couple of pessimistic idea's.
1. A 20 yo who doesn't believe in socialism has no heart.
A 40 yo who DOES believe in socialism has no mind,

2. Science has finally discovered the missing link between anthropoid apes and civilized man........
It's us.

Edited by Solo on 05/21/01 07:25 PM.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
old hand

Registered: 10/12/99
Posts: 231
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #323084 - 05/22/01 04:43 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

"Through a utopian society, we will breed a utopian people, not the other way around"

I disagree. That is comparable to saying that in order to be rid of racists, we must first have a 100% unbiased society. That is impossible. In order to have a 100% unbiased society, the members of such a society must be unbiased. Perhaps a defination would help.

so?ci?e?ty (s?-s???-t?) n., pl. so?ci?e?ties. Abbr. soc., s., S. 1.a. The totality of social relationships among human beings. b. A group of human beings broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture. c. The institutions and culture of a distinct self-perpetuating group. 2. An organization or association of persons engaged in a common profession, activity, or interest.

You will notice in all those definations, it is the collective of ppl in one way or another that makes up society. A pet peeve of mine is ppl who think that society affects ppl on a grand scale, more so then any other cause. It just cannot work that way. Society is the minds, actions, and feelings of those within it. Can you fill a cup of water before you've taken the cup out? Perhaps pack a fresh pipe with your fav greens before the glass is blown? Its the same princible.. society cannot be perfect before those indivduals that make it up are perfect.

That is my long winded overly thought out post of the day, do with it what you may.


for a good time call (847)255-0350 ask for Kriz... i'm hot and ready for action...

(yes my real phone number)

for a good time call (847)255-0350 ask for Kriz... i'm hot and ready for action...

(yes my real phone number)

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Love of Life
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #323605 - 05/22/01 07:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Free thinkers. Free everything. When we can see that we don't need "things" to occupy our minds. We shall reoccupy our soul. Become real. Live to exist. Know that everything always changes. Turn to your innerself for answers. Evolve.

-- "Eat what shall be eating." --

Evolution of Time.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 18
Loc: iowa
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Droz]
    #323610 - 05/22/01 07:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i say we wait for nanotechnology to mature. if you've read up on this, basically and hopefully, it will allow us to create a utopia. I think initially there will be greed and shit due to the freely available EVERYTHING, but eventually most people should get bored with 'things' and just be happy. i cant wait!!!

Demand freedom! www.lp.org

NeuroAtomik - Evolve!

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 119
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #323827 - 05/23/01 01:05 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Human nature is what prevent's utopia. A perfect example would be the movie, "The Beach". Everything was great until problems had to be dealt with, then all hell broke loose.

Sure, utopian societies can work for a period of time, but they always fail in the end. It's unfortunate really that our brain has some of the flaws it does.

"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" ~Patrick Henry

"If it ain't one thing, then it's the other. Any cause that crosses your path; your heart bleeds for anyone's brother. I've got to tell you you're a pain in the ass."      Oingo Boingo!

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDead Shaman

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 172
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Utopian Society [Re: MOoKie]
    #324694 - 05/24/01 12:36 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps a more advanced race could adapt themselves better to living in a Utopia, unfortunatly we are not a more advanced race. This is it, this is all we got to work with. I for one know I cannot lie down and say that I cannot achieve my goals because I am somehow chronically flawed, or because I am not perfect. Besides, it's not evolution that drives us towards a perfect enlightened society, evolution is but mere means of survival, rather it is human thought and human philosophy that drives us towards this. Unfortunatly the very nature of life dictates that there is a certain amount of genetic deviation from person to person, meaning that everybody has different thoughts and different philosophies. What this is, is chaos in it's purest form, but we find that in our universe, out of chaos, comes order. And so shall we through the thoughts, philosophies, and observations of the individual, that we will find perfect order. Of course since man himself is not perfect, we can only seek perfection in terms of what is perfect for man. And while many past and present forms of governments have achieved in maintaining peace, I propose that that is not enough. For us to be enlightened as a people, we must first seek enlightenment as a people. In not so many words, Humanity has the same goals, wether we know it or not. Today's people remain to be too rooted in their outmoded beliefs and religions. Once people start to realize that we all have a common interst, we can then begin to work together to acheive enlightenment. People must start to look towards science, for it is science, and science alone that will answer our questions about the universe and ourselves. For those of us who will remain to willingly deny the facts, and have no interest in the truth (like mormons), well then you can all start your own colony, I hear Jupiter is ecspecially nice this time of year, plus an angel told me it was the promised land!!! Really!!

And for those of you who saw the beach, remember that it was not their government or system of beliefs that eventually failed them, instead it was the invidual, who in the begining first gave the map to Leo, and thus caused Leo to give the map to the stoners who in turn caused the pot farmers to destroy their paradise. What this serves to tell us is that it is the individual who eventually caused the collapse of society. Of course in a real Utopia there would'nt be any mad pot farmers with guns, although I suppose there will always be someone who is mad for some reason or another.

It is the ideas of today, with which we will forge tommorow. Every one individual has a responsibility to their children, and childrens children. A responsiblity to make sure that they will be taught the ideals of truth, existence, achievment and the possibility, yes, possibility of God. It is these principles, the principles of fact and human persistence, through which we will forge our Utopia. I forsee these as eventual inevitabilities, for once a person sees the light, it becomes harder and harder to tell that person that sunshine does'nt exist. Unfortunatly by the time all of humanity reaches this plateau of existence, we will all be dead. That is why I propose we change the name of mars to Shroomeria, and start a bright new future that will shine out upon the heavens and set an example for all.

"And then you will realize the truth; there is no spoom."

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAgent Cooper

Registered: 08/04/00
Posts: 210
Loc: right behind you
Re: Utopian Society [Re: MOoKie]
    #324696 - 05/24/01 12:37 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What is regarded as human nature is incredibly complex. I do not think it is fair to draw such great generaliztions and conclusions upon the subject.

Interesting to note is how much the "human nature" argument can be thrown about to justify any existing system, until that system is scrapped. Five hundred years ago, people justified absolute monarchy on the basis of human nature. A hundred years ago, slavery and the legal subjugation of women was justified by human nature. Perhaps this nature of ours is whatever we collectively perceive it to be. Perhaps it is not some static quality.

I am also suspicious of anyone who has devised a blueprint toward actualizing a Utopian vision. When you cast a net of static formulas and methods upon all of humanity, failure is inevitable - a "structuring" of soceity will eventually crumble. Why? Life is in constant flux. I think change is the only thing we can be sure of.

Erecting a dam that redirects the great flow of a river might serve some ends, but the negative effects always outweigh the good. Eventually nearby plains will flood or grow barren, ecological systems will be destroyed, erosion will dominate, minerals deposits will be stopped, and the stagnant pool of water will evaporate affecting not only plants and animals, but also farmers who rely on the water to irrigate their crops, in effect causing famine and loss of the means of survival within the community, etc. etc. Although appearing in original conception to be a noble endeavor, building this dam only served to create more problems than before.

I say crack all artifical dams
and just
leave the river alone.

(the tao of cooper)

Edited by Agent Cooper on 05/24/01 10:38 AM.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 11
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Agent Cooper]
    #324703 - 05/24/01 12:44 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

courtesy of CrimethInc.


I. Transformation

If the accumulated knowledge of Western civilization has anything of value to offer us at this point, it
is an awareness of just how much is possible when it comes to human life. Our otherwise foolish
scholars of history and sociology and anthropology can at least show us this one thing: that human
beings have lived in a thousand different kinds of societies, with ten thousand different tables of
values, ten thousand different relationships to each other and the world around them, ten thousand
different conceptions of self. A little traveling can show you the same thing, if you get there before
Coca-Cola has had too much of a head start.

That's why I can't help but scoff when someone refers to "human nature," invariably in the course of
excusing himself for a miserable resignation to our supposed fate. Don't you realize we share a
common ancestor with sea urchins? If differing environments can make these distant cousins of ours
so very distant from us, how much more possible must small changes in ourselves and our
interactions be! If there is anything lacking (and there sorely, sorely is, most will admit) in our lives,
anything unnecessarily tragic or meaningless in them, any corner of happiness that we have not yet
thoroughly explored, then all that is needed is for us to alter our environments accordingly. "If you
want to change the world, you first must change yourself," the saying goes; we have learned that the
opposite is true.

And there is another valuable discovery our species has made, albeit the hard way: we are capable
of absolutely transforming environments. The place you lie, sit, or stand reading this was probably
altogether different a hundred years ago, not to mention two thousand years ago; and almost all of
those changes were brought about by human beings. We have completely remade our world in the
past few centuries, changing life for almost every kind of plant and animal, ourselves most of all. It
only remains for us to experiment with executing (or, for that matter, not executing) these changes
intentionally, in accordance with our needs and desires, rather than at the mercy of irrational,
inhuman forces like competition, superstition, routine.

Once we realize this, we can claim a new destiny for ourselves, as individuals and together. No
longer will we be buffeted about by powers that seem beyond our control; instead, in this exploration
of ourselves through new environments, we will learn all that we can be. This path will take us out of
the world as we know it, far beyond the farthest horizons we can see from here. We will become
artists of the grandest kind, painting with desire as a medium, deliberately creating and recreating
ourselves-becoming, ourselves, our own greatest work.

To accomplish this, we'll need to learn how to coexist and collaborate successfully: to see just how
interconnected all our lives are, and finally learn how to live with that in mind. Until this becomes
possible, each of us will not only be denied the vast potential of her fellows, but her own potential as
well; for we all make together the world that each of us must live in and be made by.

The other thing that is lacking is the knowledge of our own desires. Desire is a slippery thing,
amoebic and difficult to pin down, let alone keep up with. If we're going to make a destiny out of the
pursuit and transformation of desire, we first must find ways to discover and release our loves and
lusts. For this, not enough experience and adventure could ever suffice. So the makers of this new
world must be more generous and more greedy than any who have come before: more generous
with each other, and more greedy for life!

II. Utopia

Even from here, I can taste the question already on the tip of your tongue: isn't this utopian?

Well, of course it is. You know what everyone's greatest fear is? It is that all the dreams we have, all
the crazy ideas and aspirations, all the impossible romantic longings and utopian visions can come
true, that the world can grant our wishes. People spend their lives doing everything in their power to
fend off that possibility: they beat themselves up with every kind of insecurity, sabotage their own
efforts, undermine love affairs and cry sour grapes before the world even has a chance to defeat
them... because no weight could be heavier to bear than the possibility that everything we want is
possible. If that is true, then there really are things at stake in this life, things to be truly won or lost.
Nothing could be more heartbreaking than to fail when such success is actually possible, so we do
everything we can to avoid trying in the first place, to avoid having to try.

For if there is even the slightest possibility that our hearts' desires could be realized, then of course
the only thing that makes sense is to throw ourselves entirely into their pursuit and risk that
heartbreak. Despair and nihilism seem safer, projecting our hopelessness onto the cosmos as an
excuse for not even trying. So we remain, clutching our resignation, as safe as corpses in coffins...
but this still cannot ward off that dreadful possibility. Thus in our hopeless flight from the real tragedy
of the world, we only heap upon ourselves false tragedy, unnecessary tragedy, as well.

Perhaps this world will never conform perfectly to our needs-people will always die before they are
ready, perfect relationships will end in ruins, adventures will end in catastrophe and beautiful
moments be forgotten. But what breaks my heart is the way we flee from those inevitable truths into
the arms of more horrible things. It may be true that every man is lost in a universe that is
fundamentally indifferent to him, locked forever in a terrifying solitude-but it doesn't have to be true
that some people starve while others destroy food or leave fertile farms untilled. It doesn't have to be
true that men and women waste their lives away working to serve the hollow greed of a few rich men,
just to survive. It doesn't have to be the case that we never dare to tell each other what we really
want, to share ourselves honestly, to use our talents and capabilities to make life more bearable, let
alone more beautiful. That's unnecessary tragedy, stupid tragedy, pathetic and pointless. It's not
even utopian to demand that we put an end to farces like these.

If we could bring ourselves to believe, to really feel, the possibility that we are invincible and can
accomplish whatever we want in this world, it wouldn't seem out of our reach at all to correct such
absurdities. What I am begging you to do here is not to put faith in the impossible, but have the
courage to face that terrible possibility that our lives really are in our own hands, and to act
accordingly: to not settle for every misery fate and humanity have heaped upon us, but to push back,
to see which ones can be shaken off. Nothing could be more tragic, and more ridiculous, than to live
out a whole life in reach of heaven without ever stretching out your arms.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAlone In The Fire

Registered: 12/04/00
Posts: 1,004
Loc: vanderbilt university/nas...
Re: Utopian Society [Re: -]
    #325222 - 05/24/01 05:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i believe the quote, "the grass isnt always greener on the other side" applies to your desire to live in a utopia/hedsonstic society

3DShroom is a bitch

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
part of thewhole
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/03/00
Posts: 5,614
Loc: Columbus, OHIO
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #327014 - 05/27/01 03:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

the concept in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World appeals to me, drugs, sex, food, no worries, no thinking, entertainment, hell yeah!


Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #327150 - 05/27/01 05:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Totalitarian style genetic engineering.

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
as above, so below
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 1,947
Loc: Malice, Tx
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #337584 - 06/08/01 04:44 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I've been reading up on this political system that WILL create a Utopia, but I need everybody on board I can get.

It's called...Communism.

hahaha, just kidding, but back to the utopia thing.
We can't create a Utopia with what we've got. and by what we've got I mean the people we have to work with.
So even if it is a joke Kid's right on the Totalitarian genetic engineering thing we *do* need a perfect people before we can have a perfect society because a less than perfect population would RUIN a Utopia.


Take off every 'zig' ...for great justice

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 17
Re: Utopian Society [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #358393 - 07/21/01 05:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

May be I haven't read all posts properly, but why do you guys want a utopia?
Utopia is something which is perfect, that is, has stopped to develop.
Do you really want to live in a society where there is no scope for development and progress?
And don't you think that if you could make human beings "perfect" (as many you you have suggested) those beings would no longer be human?

Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Aldous Huxley, Scales

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Teotzlcoatl 4,681 63 07/27/07 05:57 PM
by Teotzlcoatl
* Collectivism Is Utopian Evolving 1,135 9 10/10/04 02:58 PM
by JesusChrist
* Libertarian Societies Ravus 526 6 07/19/04 09:59 PM
by Crobih
* Capitalism or Socialism?
( 1 2 3 all )
PotSmokinHippie 5,404 40 08/01/01 07:14 PM
by svoboda
* What Would Your Utopia be Like?
( 1 2 all )
MasFina 1,349 26 06/16/06 11:38 PM
by MushmanTheManic
* Theoretical near utopian system. psikooz 547 12 04/13/04 01:27 AM
by silversoul7
* Hunter Gatherer Societies
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 1,574 33 05/02/03 05:54 PM
by Anonymous
* Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati & Dessert Disco Cat 2,384 7 04/21/11 12:33 PM
by PsychoReactive

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
1,780 topic views. 2 members, 6 guests and 16 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.09 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 14 queries.