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Re: why does the shroomery hate the US Government? [Re: RoKiSdEaD]
    #3108495 -

Quote:
You are blind to the facts my friend. How can you even sit there and say that sitting back and accepting unjust laws is the correct thing to do? How do you think womens suffrage, civil rights, and all that other shit you mentioned came into being? Someone has got to stand up for their beliefs, and the idea that it is unpatriotic to do so is absurd. This country was found upon people standing up for their beliefs and will continue to.

.................................................

Maybe if you did a little research yourself instead of just blowing down Psilo'squotes as bullshit you would find out where the come from, and find out they are reliable sources. I mean geeze, I learned some of that shit in modern history class in highschool, and to dismiss it as bullshit is very naive.

 




Thanks , I was pretty sure I wasent talking out my ass.  :laugh:

Like I have said before, .......some people have education, and some ONLY have opinions.  :wink:


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Re: why does the shroomery hate the US Government? [Re: ]
    #3109090 -

well i didnt have a chance to read all of the stuff, but in reply to the first post.
i dislike (not hate) the US Government because they preach so much about being "free" and yet they are paranoid and are spying on us though that damn "patriot act" loophole that allows the FBI to spy on you without your knowledge legally.
also, just the quality of life isnt that great in America in general.
Sure its a goldmine for cash and all that good stuff, but im not talking about money.
im talking about LIFE.
Life in America is so much more hectic yet delicate that thanks to our jobs we cannot really appreciate everything in life.
we only get 2 weeks of vacation and all this other shit.
it kinda pisses me off especially coz i went back to my home country, Bosnia and Hercegovina to visit some family and finally felt what it feels like to be free.
I could do anything, and life is so much more relaxed there. Im not just speaking about Bosnia here tho, im talking about lots of other countries in at least Europe.
I dont know how to describe it exactly, but when i go somewhere else, i just feel a weight being lifted off my shoulders.
i dont know what it is, maybe its just immigrant paranoia or something.
meh sorry for the rant, i felt like spilling my feelings a little bit, even though it wasnt conclusive at all.
hahaha


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We can't stop here, this is bat country! -HST

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Re: why does the shroomery hate the US Government? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3109611 -

silversoul7 said:
All governments suck, not just the US Government.



That's what most people don't understand when you give them you're anti-american government point of view.

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Re: why does the shroomery hate the US Government? [Re: abhi]
    #3109623 -

Our government is going to end up being taken over by the EU and the UN united as the New World Order - we're probably occupied and we dont even know it ...


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Re: why does the shroomery hate the US Government? [Re: ]
    #3111109 -

Quote:
but by and large we've done a hell of a lot more good than any other country on the planet, can you refute that?



Yes, with numerous reliable sources :yesnod:

First of all, America hasent even paid its UN dues for countless years(over 10 for sure, but I dont know the exact number :wink:

For years they have been using this as leverage , and then  never paying.

If they did it would be a huge help to the UN, but its all a tease.

Furthermore, on average the United States contrbutes little to help the world($$$)when the size of america and its wealth is factored in.......leaving smaller western countries with more to do , and in many cases, the worlds worst dictatorships were created , funded , or assited by the US government.

Even the "food for peace" program that was set up BY the government, and was funded by PUBLIC DONATION, was a ruse to buy more weapons for the war on Coca in latin america. :yesnod:

Books are fun :grin:


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Re: why does the shroomery hate the US Government? [Re: ]
    #3114635 -

jono1 said:
why isn't it pathetic?  that is the real question. 

name a government, or form of government, that exist, and has relatively fewer problems than ours?




Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.

There's 3...

No time to get into it right now, I'll be back later :smile:


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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: ]
    #3115004 -

I won't read the whole post, because it's getting late, but here's a few reasons the US of A aren't as free and great as you think you are:

- A political system where the only real power lies with two parties, who are both basically right-wing, as in: capitalist & nationalistic.
- A health care system that costs twice as much per capita as for example Belgium's does, while the results are (among others) much longer waiting times in hospitals, higher costs for procedures and less skilled doctors.
- Way too little vacation in a work year (compare the USA to Europe and do the math)
- Higher goods prices and comparably lower wages
- Media that distort reality
- A government that does what it thinks is right and lies to the public to be backed up. There are countries out there that are way more democratic, as in: the people decide what's important, not the politicians.
- nearly 50 million illiterates
- legalised guns

There are others (among which cultural trends) but these are off the top of my head.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: ]
    #3115480 -

I heard that the latest USA statistics show that one third of your population live below the poverty line???

I won't add to what everyone else has said to you, but why start a thread when you are not prepared to keep an open mind and take in what is being said? It seems like a lot of the people posting have good points for not liking the American government, no?

Whereas your main point is, "these are the laws, stop complaining, we need to be grateful for who we are."

these sort of non-questioning attitudes can only be seen in people who want to feel safe and content in their belief they understand how and why the world is run the way it is. Scares you to think there are alterior motives and lies and conspiracies, by those who rule your life.

the government and its media, (yes ITS media) breed PATRIOTISM, which only encourages the feeling of separateness and superiority and antagonism towards the rest of the world. (this helps justify war, see?)

You are right in one thing. Every government is extremely problematic. But the power and influence of the USA allows them to expand their plans for personal profit and still get away with it.

Who watches the Watchmen if their own citizens don't?


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Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: lovelight]
    #3115499 -

US citizens are still better off than 2/3's of the world no matter how much people piss and moan.

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3115598 -

Alan Stone said:
I won't read the whole post, because it's getting late, but here's a few reasons the US of A aren't as free and great as you think you are:

- A political system where the only real power lies with two parties, who are both basically right-wing, as in: capitalist & nationalistic.



If only our economy were truly capitalist...

Quote:
- A health care system that costs twice as much per capita as for example Belgium's does, while the results are (among others) much longer waiting times in hospitals, higher costs for procedures and less skilled doctors.



We actually have some of the best doctors in the world, and waiting times aren't nearly as bad as they are in Canada.

Quote:
- Way too little vacation in a work year (compare the USA to Europe and do the math)



Ok, I'll give you that.

Quote:
- Higher goods prices and comparably lower wages



Compared to whom?  My family once had an exchange student from Denmark, and he was amazed at how cheap Levi's jeans were over here compared to his home country.  As for wages, which income bracket are you talking about?

Quote:
- Media that distort reality



Oh ya, and we're completely alone in that department. :rolleyes:

Quote:
- A government that does what it thinks is right and lies to the public to be backed up. There are countries out there that are way more democratic, as in: the people decide what's important, not the politicians.



Name some.

Quote:
- nearly 50 million illiterates



Not that bad in the big scheme of things.

Quote:
- legalised guns



How the fuck are we supposed to fight off tyranny if you take our guns away?

Quote:
There are others (among which cultural trends) but these are off the top of my head.



I can think of plenty of things that suck about the US government, but that was a shitty list.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: Adom]
    #3119036 -

Quote:
US citizens are still better off than 2/3's of the world no matter how much people piss and moan."




YES, because America is 5% of the worlds population, added to the other western countries , WE(the western world) make up 20%, so I could say I have it better then 80% of the world.

But that no reason to not examine my own government, for example, the corruption is so obvious its on the news daily(sponsership scandel)

Snakes will continue to wiggle through the grass if we dont stomp them where they stand. :wink: 


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Edited by Psilocybeingzz (09/10/04 02:48 PM)

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: Adom]
    #3120989 -

Quote:
US citizens are still better off than 2/3's of the world no matter how much people piss and moan.



well, that depends on your definition of "better off"

personally, i would much rather be barefoot in the rainforest,
drinking Yage and eating insects and magic stones...

than breathing flourocarbons, slurping corn syrup,
and staring at a radioactive screen for 8 hours a day.

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: Dr. Wiggins]
    #3120991 -

Dr. Wiggins said:
Quote:
US citizens are still better off than 2/3's of the world no matter how much people piss and moan.



well, that depends on your definition of "better off"

personally, i would much rather be barefoot in the rainforest,
drinking Yage and eating insects and magic stones...

than breathing flourocarbons, slurping corn syrup,
and staring at a radioactive screen for 8 hours a day.



Then what are you doing online right now? The rainforest awaits.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3121012 -

no, it does not await.

it is almost completely destroyed,
thanks to our "pursuit of fat-asses"

the fight to save it is going to take place HERE.
and part of that fight is an information war,
hence my presence here.

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Re: why does the shroomery hate the US Government? [Re: ]
    #3121541 -

I don't hate the US government... but I certainly don't love it either. I tolerate it.

Shades of gray my friend, shades of gray. :sun:


"I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them to obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

- Professor Bernardo de la Paz in "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" by Robert A Heinlein

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: Dr. Wiggins]
    #3121545 -

Actually, you'd be surprised how much of the world's rainforests are still undisturbed, compared to, say, grasslands. Now, there are certain areas of the world, particularly the Amazon, where the rainforests are disappearing, but most likely, there will still be quite a bit of rainforest 50 years from now.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3128771 -

Quote:
If only our economy were truly capitalist..



Granted, no single market on this planet is entirely free. That doesn't change the fact that there is no real political left in the USA. In a free country, any political party should have equal opportunity for marketing themselves and their ideas, which includes budget limitations for political parties (that also serve to hedge out corruption and lobby influence).

Quote:
We actually have some of the best doctors in the world, and waiting times aren't nearly as bad as they are in Canada.



There are Western countries that aren't located in North America, in case you hadn't noticed. If you can't be helped here in Belgium rightaway, the waiting times in E.R.'s are ten minutes tops. What's more, EVERYONE can afford the best doctors here, whereas the best doctors in the U.S. are limited to the richer individuals.

Quote:
Compared to whom? My family once had an exchange student from Denmark, and he was amazed at how cheap Levi's jeans were over here compared to his home country. As for wages, which income bracket are you talking about?



I was tired, I meant higher living cost, and was talking about average wages and the difference between the richest and the poorest.
While gasoline, jeans, computers, etc might be cheaper in the U.S., we (in most European countries) have affordable insurance, health access for everyone and cheaper schools which are just as good as U.S. universities. I pay only 500 euros per year to enlist at my college and it's one of the most reputed of the country in its field.

Quote:
Name some.



Holland, Belgium, and France to name some. Our votes actually matter and lead to changes in policy. Can you tell me your vote matters?

Quote:
Not that bad in the big scheme of things.



So you don't think "the greatest country in the world" should have a lower illiteracy rate than 20%? Doesn't that tell you anything about your educational system, or about the vulnerability of that fifth of the population to indoctrination?

Quote:
How the fuck are we supposed to fight off tyranny if you take our guns away?



What tyranny have you fought off? Afghanistan, Iraq and Cuba are some of the examples of your 'freedom fight' gone wrong.
What does fighting off tyranny have to do with guns in people's houses? How does citizens owning guns contribute to world peace and world liberation?
The only tyranny you could possibly fight off with those legalised guns is that of your own government.

Quote:
I can think of plenty of things that suck about the US government, but that was a shitty list.



It's not my fault our interpretations of what's important and what constitutes fundamental freedom differ. I'm sorry I care about health access, affordable education, pensions for everyone, welfare for the unemployed, world peace and diplomacy. Yeah, you're right, pretty shitty fucking list. :rolleyes:
A government's merit should be asessed by judging how it treats its worst-off denizens, and on that criteria yours fails miserably. The U.S. might be a good country for the rich to live in, but that's because it's an aristocratic oligarchy, where the power stays within a small group of a few clans.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3128855 -

Alan Stone said:
Granted, no single market on this planet is entirely free. That doesn't change the fact that there is no real political left in the USA. In a free country, any political party should have equal opportunity for marketing themselves and their ideas, which includes budget limitations for political parties (that also serve to hedge out corruption and lobby influence).



Left and right are relative, in case you didn't notice.

Quote:
Quote:
We actually have some of the best doctors in the world, and waiting times aren't nearly as bad as they are in Canada.



There are Western countries that aren't located in North America, in case you hadn't noticed. If you can't be helped here in Belgium rightaway, the waiting times in E.R.'s are ten minutes tops. What's more, EVERYONE can afford the best doctors here, whereas the best doctors in the U.S. are limited to the richer individuals.



Ok, I'll grant you that.

Quote:
Quote:
Compared to whom? My family once had an exchange student from Denmark, and he was amazed at how cheap Levi's jeans were over here compared to his home country. As for wages, which income bracket are you talking about?



I was tired, I meant higher living cost, and was talking about average wages and the difference between the richest and the poorest.
While gasoline, jeans, computers, etc might be cheaper in the U.S., we (in most European countries) have affordable insurance, health access for everyone and cheaper schools which are just as good as U.S. universities. I pay only 500 euros per year to enlist at my college and it's one of the most reputed of the country in its field.



I imagine that might have to do with the fact that in Europe, children can choose one of two tracks--college, or trade school.  The problem with the American education system is we act like everyone should be college-bound, and those that aren't are just left to their own devices.

Quote:
Quote:
Name some.



Holland, Belgium, and France to name some. Our votes actually matter and lead to changes in policy. Can you tell me your vote matters?



My vote may not get the politician I want elected, but it can still send a message to Washington.  I admit, though, our electoral system is a bit fucked up.

Quote:
Quote:
Not that bad in the big scheme of things.



So you don't think "the greatest country in the world" should have a lower illiteracy rate than 20%? Doesn't that tell you anything about your educational system, or about the vulnerability of that fifth of the population to indoctrination?



Show me where I said we were the greatest country in the world.

Quote:
The only tyranny you could possibly fight off with those legalised guns is that of your own government.



Thank you mister obvious.  That's exactly the point.

Quote:
Quote:
I can think of plenty of things that suck about the US government, but that was a shitty list.



It's not my fault our interpretations of what's important and what constitutes fundamental freedom differ. I'm sorry I care about health access, affordable education, pensions for everyone, welfare for the unemployed, world peace and diplomacy. Yeah, you're right, pretty shitty fucking list. :rolleyes:



And I'm sorry that I care about letting people have their own money and make their own decisions about what to do with it, instead of it being stolen by the government and then rationed out as they see fit. :rolleyes:

Quote:
A government's merit should be asessed by judging how it treats its worst-off denizens, and on that criteria yours fails miserably. The U.S. might be a good country for the rich to live in, but that's because it's an aristocratic oligarchy, where the power stays within a small group of a few clans.



No, a government's merit should be assessed by how much it lets people live their own lives.  That government is best which governs least.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: why does the shroomery hate the US Government? [Re: ]
    #3129495 -

jono1 said:
the DEA tries to keep coke out of my sister nose, or dope out of her veins. thats good in my book. sorry if i'm mistaken.



it drugs werent made illegal and it wasnt enforced by organisations like the DEA people wouldnt have to rely on shady dealers, some would still use shit but it would be safe. its not up to you what other people choose to use


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Its only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything.


You got the gun, I got a plant. Who's the criminal?

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Re: Someone needs to read the Bill Of Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3130469 -

I'll respectfully disagree on the other issues, but I'd like to react to one point of yers.

Quote:
And I'm sorry that I care about letting people have their own money and make their own decisions about what to do with it, instead of it being stolen by the government and then rationed out as they see fit.



Stolen is a strong word. Belgium probably has one of the highest tax rates in the world, but a lot of that money is put to good use. After all, that education, health, pension and welfare system of ours requires cash to be able to operate.
I don't mind paying taxes on what I earn, as long as it benefits the greater good. That greater good is why there's a government in the first place. Well, that and because people are too lazy or to disorganised on their own to take care of everything themselves. I guess if you don't care about the greater good there's no reason to have a government in the first place.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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