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Invisiblelongbong
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Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 180
Re: genetics
    #307353 - 05/04/01 08:04 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If that is the case the when yout ake a spore print from a mushroom and produce a new batch then take a spore print from that are you not inbreeding your mushrooms?

What happens in nature spores from cubensis#1 fly and land in dung and then spores from cubensis#2 land in the same dung from another place producing genetic recombination?



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Offlinehubertd8
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Re: genetics [Re: longbong]
    #309385 - 05/04/01 03:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)


well i don't know what some of those other idiots are talking bout, but fungi reporduce both sexually and asexually.

Spores are produced asexually, however if something changes in the enviroment fungi begin to reproduce sexually to increase genetic diversity, thereby hoping to adapt or increase survival in new enviroment conditions.

when hypae with diff, nuclei come together 2 things can occur; 1. crossing over of genetic info or they remain joind but nuclei are in seperate parts of the same mycelium. sexual reproduction has 2 stages plasmogamy and Karyogamy(occur at diff times)

I believe that mushrooms only have 2 sexes if you wanna call it that, -mating type and +mating type. these are the hypae.

To answer you q, if it both mushies are of the same species then crossing over can occur or the stronger (genetically) strain will dominate, like placing PC B+ and Eq, these two mushies are nearly identical and since enviromental changes play a large role in physical apperance the likelyhood of anyone being able to tell em apart is very unlikely, but placing pc and pa strains together won't cause sexual rep. since the are diff mushies. It's like getting a bull to fuck a goat, (not sure if it dosen't work), it probably won't do anything.

well whatever i said to much, if anyone would like to add something or corrrect me please do, its been a while since my last bio coarse.



--------------------
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

Bertrand Russell


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Anonymous

Re: genetics [Re: longbong]
    #309570 - 05/04/01 08:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

P. cubensis has no asexual reproduction strategy. Using a single print to grow a batch of mushrooms is inbreeding. Only 1/4 of the spores from that print can mate with any other spore from that print. They actualy prefer to mate outside their spore race. Genetic recombination occurs everytime monokaryons mate succesfully. Whether you are inbreeding or outcrossing. It is not like plants, you are never going to reach a homozygous spore race. Every strain produced from every spore print, is different.



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Offlinehubertd8
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Re: genetics [Re: ]
    #310076 - 05/05/01 07:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

are you sure? How come? and in what way are they different from other mushrooms, cause i know that most mushies do have asex rep. and prefer it over sexual, but i guess if your dealing with millions of spores each could have genetic mutations and probably are diff, i guess this would cause some variation and make the batch different sizes and shit, but this could also be attributed to enviroment.

However if a 2 genetiically identical spore(meaning they "clamp" their hypea) would be used then it would be a colony type thing, producing identical mushies, with minute changes because of perhaps soil and nutrient inconsistencies. but like you mentioned the 1/4 ratio this would be rather difficult.

oh yeh i remember reading something about the the monokaryons having to be compatible, anyone knows what makes em compatible?

longbong
to further answer your Q, for pc spore-monokaryons to mate to "mate", when merging there hypea they(the individual hypeas) have to clamp in together. Inorder to do this they have to be of same or very similar species.



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"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

Bertrand Russell


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Offlinehubertd8
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Re: genetics [Re: hubertd8]
    #310086 - 05/05/01 07:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

test



--------------------
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

Bertrand Russell


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Offlinehubertd8
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Re: genetics [Re: hubertd8]
    #310123 - 05/05/01 08:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

t2



--------------------
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

Bertrand Russell


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InvisibleZeus
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Registered: 06/08/00
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Re: genetics [Re: hubertd8]
    #310258 - 05/06/01 02:54 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

BING BING BING hubertd8 got it on the nose



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" I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am. "

"Experience is the meaning to life" -me


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Anonymous

Re: genetics [Re: hubertd8]
    #310458 - 05/06/01 12:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I guess in a broad sense you could define culturing mycelium as asexual reproduction. I was refering to budding, conidia, sporangiospores, chlamydospores, etc... These do not occur in P. cubensis.
By the way look up the term Tetrapolar. It will describe compatability to you..

Edited by Teonan on 05/06/01 01:03 PM.



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Invisiblelongbong
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Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 180
Re: genetics [Re: ]
    #310639 - 05/06/01 05:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

ok - this makes good sense in places. Assuming they only use asexual reproducion then making sporeprints growing shrooms and making more prints should not be a problem to the genetics (not much anyway), but surely if some sort of sexual reproduction is used and you keep "inbreeding" the shrooms then isn't that bad for your crop?



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Invisiblelongbong
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Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 180
Re: genetics [Re: longbong]
    #311177 - 05/07/01 09:43 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ok I think this makes good sense...

WRITTEN BY TEONAN FROM ANOTHER POST

Potency is Genetics + environment. Growing the same pure strain out over many petri plates will result in senescense. When we take a print from a single mushroom, that is 4-spored, and germinate those spores on a petri plate or multispore inoculation, this is a form of inbreeding. Any given spore from that print can only breed with 1/4 of the remainder of the spores from that print. When shrooms are collected in the wild, every mushroom you see growing is a different strain. Spores are blown by wind, transfered by the animals that graze, etc..., this insures that strains mate with each other and exchange genetics. Yes their will be a form of senescence from using mushrooms from one print, to produce more prints, and keep doing this over many generations. I doubt that any of us will live that long though.
As far as a pure culture, it will degrade if grown out over and over and over, without returning to the original pure culture selected in the first place. That is the definition of Stametes P-1, P2, P3,P4, system. Read that chapter it will help greatly. Stametes makes large numbers of duplicates of his P-0, or 1st pure isolate. He returns to these cultures from storage, to prevent senescence. He also has the same system for grain spawn. Remember, with the type of reproductive strategy, 4-spore, that cubensis uses, unless you are mixing spores together from different strains, you are inbreeding. But there is still enough diversity, that it will take longer than your life span to noticed a real difference.
Storage of a print for extended periods of time, will result in a lower germination rate, which can limit the remaining gene pool, but not enough for you to notice. Look at the history of P. tampanensis. All cultures in circulation, came from one mushroom, over time those cultures degraded. Sporeworks has syringes that are not from those cultures, but from mushrooms grown from a print from that culture. His new offerings show improved vigor for that reason. They came from spores, not a pure culture that has lost vigor due to twenty-three years of succesive culturing. If you could have access to a pure culture closer to that P-0, it would probably work almost as good as these new syringes.

So if that is true then taking a print, growing, taking another print should not be too much of a problem although new spores might be good?



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