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Offlinedarkangel932
newbie
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 20
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: mycelium and H2O2
    #306052 - 04/30/01 10:58 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

yes but if you go to this sight, all the person wants you to do is buy the book. Are you the author? I found no information at that site! Have you read the book? I feel that this is a message board for exchange of information. I find this may be an interesting book to read if someone is so inclined for H2O2 cultures. Has anyone found this book helpful?

I think as far as why H202 kills the spores, and bacteria, is strictly biochemical. Simply, the differences in the structure and metabolic processes are different between mycelia, spores, and bacteria. I would think that since H2O2 is a biochemical molecule, and participates in some metabolic processes, it would be easy to say that H2O2 participates in the metabolism of mycelium, but not the spore stage, nor in bacteria. I know that in mitochondria and simalar organelles have different processes as far as biochemical metabolism, and require, and metabolize different precursor, or end molecules. For example, fatty acid oxidation, fuel from rye grain, is oxidized simalarly in mitochondria, and peroxisomes(mitochondria like organelle of germinating seeds). One big difference is that in one step of the oxidation of fatty acids (breakdown of long chain molecule for energy) between peroxisomes, and mitochondria is that peroxisomes metabolize waterH2O, and 1/2 O2, into, you guessed it, H2O2, this is further catalyzed back into H2O and 1/2O2. Further, I would imagine that adding the H2O2 to the mycelium cuts out the step to metabolize more H2O2 conserving energy for more important things like uh hmmmm growing mushrooms maybe?

THATS MY GUESS TELL ME IF I'M WRONG

All ideas are holy

Edited by darkangel932 on 04/30/01 11:30 PM.



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OfflineAzure
old hand
Registered: 01/01/99
Posts: 469
Loc: California, USA
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: mycelium and H2O2 [Re: darkangel932]
    #306355 - 05/01/01 01:21 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

SIMPLY?!!! heh... In lay man's terms, what is the difference between the cell wall of the mycelium versus the cell wall of a bacteria that makes the mycelium "immune" to H2O2? I don't see how internal organelles have anything to do with this...but that's because I have no idea what you're saying, darkangel...



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OfflineTriple_3
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 99
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: mycelium and H2O2 [Re: Azure]
    #306377 - 05/01/01 01:41 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

basically he is saying that because mycelium is more complex than bacteria
it can adapt and break apart the water and H
while bacteria can't

initially it hurts both

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Offlinedarkangel932
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 20
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: mycelium and H2O2 [Re: Azure]
    #306400 - 05/01/01 02:15 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

In a cell wall, as in comparison with spores, bacteria, and mycelia cells, their are going to be charachteristic differences. In any kind of cell wall/membrane, there exists a mechanism by which molecules enter the cell. These mechanisms are large molecules themselves (enzyme proteins), which act somewhat as a lock and key upon entering through the cell wall/membrane into the cytosol of the cell which will come in contact with organelles such as the mitochondria..........Anyways, though I am a biochemistry major, I am no expert in the understanding of mushroom metabolism. What I have portraid is at best a vague portrait. I don't know what exactly the H2O2 destroys in the cells it kills, and the mycelium it doesn't. Though, I am positive that H2O2 forms what is called a free radical reaction. This is sort of like the domino effect except imagine that one domino knocks down three, those three knock down three, etc. Enzymes exist which "terminate" these radical reactions as they are deadly to an organism. The case with spores I would think is that in that stage of the mushrooms cycle, the main purpose for a spore is not to produce all these fancy enzymes which terminate such reations, perhaps this is why spores are so light that they can fly in the wind. This could also be the reason for the mushrooms success. The spores don't have to be resistant to H2O2 at this part of the stage, just carry dna to another spot where mycelium might be successful...Though I am only speculating this characteristic having evolved.... Evolution is probably the most baffling but fascinating aspects of biology. Anyways, I just like to talk about science. I am sure some people on this site know more than me.



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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 1,965
Loc: Mid-West
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: mycelium and H2O2 [Re: darkangel932]
    #306868 - 05/01/01 07:55 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I'm by far not an expert on any of this but this is what I do know:
Through the natural biochemical processes of life most all life forms produce h2o2 as a by product of certain reactions.  Now seeing as h2o2 is toxic to biological systems all the cells, to some degree, create an enzyme, catalase, that fascilitates the rapid decomposition of the h2o2 into water and oxygen.  Spores are pretty much dormant until they land in an area with the proper moisture and nutrients to grow, so they don't produce any h2o2 and have no need to manufacture catalase to break it down, so when a spore is soaked in h2o2, sadly, it dies.  Bacteria also create catalase but seeing as a bacterium is relatively tiny it stands no chance at breaking down all of the h2o2 that overwhelms it and it inturn dies also.  Seeing as the mycelium of the fungus contains a vast number of cells constantly producing catalase it can break down the h2o2 rather quickly and with minamal casuality to its cells.  The same thing happens when you get a booboo and your mommy puts h2o2 on it to kill all of the icky germs!

I can see a world where this is no poverty and no war, I can also see us attacking that world because they would never expect it. :wink:


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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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Offlinesylo
addict
Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 219
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: mycelium and H2O2 [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #307179 - 05/02/01 01:27 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Shroom mycelium, but not the spores, produce catalase which breaks down H2O2. Most bacteria do not produce catalase and this makes them susceptible to H2O2.



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