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OfflineBigJohnson
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Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber
    #1284095 - 02/06/03 08:26 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I have been thinking of using verm soaked in h2o2 underneath a layer of hydrated perlite, upon which your cakes would be placed and fruited. Wouldn't this release o2 into the chamber for fruiting and help gaurd against contams?


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1284152 - 02/06/03 08:42 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

it would release o2 for a short time but not enough to replace fanning or some other form of air exchange. it would prevent the verm from contaminating, but if the verm is not accomplishing anything why have it in there.


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OfflineBigJohnson
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: Bilge]
    #1284191 - 02/06/03 08:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The purpose of the verm layer would be to hold the h2o2. The decomposition of h2o2 into h2o + o2 would take time. Its not like all would have decomposed in a few days.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1284280 - 02/06/03 09:18 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

There is more than 20% oxygene in the air you breath. The problem is that the CO2 must go out, not that the O2 doesn?t come in.


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OfflineBigJohnson
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: Anno]
    #1284306 - 02/06/03 09:23 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Gotcha . CO2 is more dense than O2. But, decomposing H2O2 would create an updraft of H2O and O2, wouldn't it? Your cakes would be in line with this updraft.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1287799 - 02/07/03 08:05 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

can i ask the mods here a question ?
why is a thread on peroxide allowed in adv. cultivation when a bleach question got moved out just the day before ?
is there some bias against the bleach tek ??


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: Hippie3]
    #1287828 - 02/07/03 08:12 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

No, but the bleach tek is clearly explained. Anyone who searches for it can easily figure out any answers to their questions. Where as decomposition and such, of h2O2 are grey areas, with not much documentation.

It's your own damn fault for being so thorough, with your tek :wink:

no bias though. hehe


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OfflineBigJohnson
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: Raadt]
    #1288822 - 02/07/03 02:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Just wanted to let all of you know that I added 3% h2o2 to the substrate of my fruiting chamber and today I have pins (a pin).

I don't know if its because of the h2o2, but my last two batches took over a week to show pins, and these are from the same cloned mycelium.

Peace


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InvisibleShmoppy McGillicuddy
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1289417 - 02/07/03 06:16 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

An interesting thought.

I know that H2O2 is a common chemical, and as such, most if not all organisms have developed enzymes to decompose it.
But, if one used H2O2 agar for long enough, could senescence happen in such a way that it became acclimated to the presence of H2O2?

Perhaps it saw the presence of H2O2 as a indication of sugars found in the agar mixes used, and when it was not present, it would react as if it weren't in a decent substrate?

If senescence happens for kinds of sugars, why not any other chemicals present?

Of course, I know nothing about what actually causes the mycelium to become too used to any substrate, so this may not apply at all. :confused: 


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OfflineTwIg
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: Shmoppy McGillicuddy]
    #1289918 - 02/07/03 10:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I guess I should mention that I used to do somthing like this (when I grew shrooms). I used to have problems with the cobweb mold starting from my perlite at the bottom of the tank. At the time I was simply using 10 gallon tanks with 6 verm/BRF cakes with a drip shield. I'd have to open the tank daily to exchange air.

I was getting sick of the mold, so I thought of using hydrogen peroxide on the perlite before getting the cakes in. When it came for me to change each tank, I'd soak the perlite with distilled water and then spray a 3:1 H2O2/H2O heavily over the perlite. (I *didn't* ever think of the vermiculite layer though; that is a good idea.) I noticed that from then on I was forming pins about 4 or 5 days faster than normal, and that the shrooms seemed to grow quicker.

Adds to your hypothesis of the oxygen aiding the growth cycle. I just thought at the time it was the mold being gone  :tongue:

~TwIg~


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Edited by TwIg (02/07/03 10:33 PM)


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: Shmoppy McGillicuddy]
    #1289944 - 02/07/03 10:49 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Hip, I think I agree with you here.  Kinda.  Bleach is well documented (thank you) and although newish, not advanced.  But I don't think this is very advanced either.  These comments are off-topic though and unimportant, just wanted to side with you so you know you have friends around here :wink:

My opinion is that peroxide is not going to be very useful as a means to get around air exchange.  I just don't see enough power behind it's decomposition to really remove co2.  Even if it is at high concentrations, I don't think the effect would last long enough to really matter.  And so far as it adding oxygen, in a terrerium, co2 levels are the problem (measured in ppm), not ratio of co2 to oxygen (which is mostly what peroxide decomposition would alter imo).  A related a well covered subject IMO.

A more applicable effect of peroxide is in a scenario where oxygen itself (or lack thereof) does matter.  Preventing anaerobic areas.  Anaerobic is by definition lack of oxygen, and is more common the more water is around.  Anaerobic conditions do favor many contams, and harm mycelium.  In other words, peroxide itself protects perlite from bacterial and mold spores, while the oxygen produced by it's decomposition will keep conditions unfavorable to any living anaerobic bacteria.  Same in a grain jar which is too wet, anaerobic bacteria quickly get a hold.  But a peroxidated grain jar can have more moisture in it because the oxygen produced prevents anaerobic conditions.  Interesting, but documented and not advanced.

and Shmoppy, I think this:
Quote:

I know that H2O2 is a common chemical, and as such, most if not all organisms have developed enzymes to decompose it.



actually answers the question which followed it:
Quote:

But, if one used H2O2 agar for long enough, could senescence happen in such a way that it became acclimated to the presence of H2O2?



the answer is that all life on earth (likely other planets as well, but likely excluding life which evolved and lives in deep space) is acclimated to the presence of h2o2.  Peroxidase is the enzyme that breaks down peroxide.  All life (so far as I know at least) produces peroxidase if it's in the presence of peroxide or not.  Evolutionary thing as the organisms that didn't produce it from day one never lived long enough to reproduce.

It may get more complicated along the lines that you ask about, but I seriously seriously doubt it.  100s of millions of years of life evolving in the presence of peroxide has produced few effects (to my knowledge) other than the production of peroxidase.  I doubt seriously that in a few to a few hundred generations that a home cultivator will go through if this evolutionary path will continue.  In other words, the problem was solved eons ago with peroxidase, therefore no natural selection at play because there isn't a problem anymore.

And senescence of any kind has not been shown to be caused by peroxide at levels healthy to mycelium.



   


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OfflineBigJohnson
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: mycofile]
    #1290519 - 02/08/03 08:57 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Update:

My cakes are mutating. About 50% of the surface of each cake is covered in a bulbous, white mass that looks like dry foam.

Little white growths, what I assume are pins, are popping out all over. These guys look like little, unveiled mushrooms and are a few millimeters long.

My last two sets of 6 cakes each didn't do this. Both batches fruited very poorly, though. I'm keeping my cakes much wetter this time out in addition to using h2o2.


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OfflineH2O2shrooms
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: mycofile]
    #1292815 - 02/09/03 08:48 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Mycelium will acclimate to the increased peroxide levels. I take a few snippets from Dr. Rush Wayne's book for support. While no mention of genetics is made, it is apperent that some adaptation is definetly made.

From his book;

"Cultures that have not been exposed to peroxide medium previously will often lag at first, as the mycelium adjusts to this
new feature of its environment. Sometimes the mycelium will appear to be trying to grow away from the peroxide agar at
first. (You may observe similar behavior when transferring from a plate that originally contained peroxide but that has been
overgrown with mycelium for a few days so that all added peroxide has decomposed). Sooner or later, however, the
mycelium will settle down and grow normally over the surface of the new medium.

Note that peroxide-treated spawn medium should only be inoculated with peroxide-adapted mycelium, that is, mycelium
that has grown out on peroxide-containing agar. Otherwise, the unadapted mycelium may die off or take a very long time to
initiate new growth when confronted with the relatively high concentration of peroxide I have suggested for spawn making.
(Peroxide-treated bulk substrate, however, contains a much lower concentration of peroxide, so it can safely be inoculated
with spawn that has not been adapted to peroxide.)"




I find it interesting that the myc reverts to a non-peroxide adapted system in a few days. Must be a tremendous waste of energy to produce extra peroxidase. So as soon as the stimulis removed it would stop wasting energy.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1293262 - 02/09/03 11:40 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

get on aim


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflineSteelcutoats
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: TwIg]
    #14365082 - 04/28/11 05:22 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Using a H2O2 substrate in your fruiting chamber [Re: BigJohnson]
    #14365598 - 04/28/11 05:22 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
I think you shouldn't bump dead, 8 year old threads with nothing but a link.


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