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Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering
    #29676302 -

I finally made a new account...
(my previous account was named horribly.)

OK so, been at this for years very passively...

[*edit/update]
OK so actually in c10s agar guide MrBovineJoni answered HoneyBadger9321's question about boiling- Yes you need to boil before filtering/straining and I had even previously already read that you can filter agar-agar through a coffee filter, so my asking if the cheesecloth is too fine was silly in hindsight..:facepalm3:
also my plates from attempt #1 are germinating fine. Flow hood seems to be working fine

ppl say making agar is comparable to making Jello-Shots?

I built an entire flowhood, prob like a thousand dollars...I would like to see I guess if at least this thing is relatively sterile by testing w plates before germinating/inoculating plates.
anyways def not a entry level easy thing generally speaking...

I have honestly had a hard time relying on the forum search to try to hash out what forums are dead or not......call me lazy:noway2:



Questions:
  • 1. Does the agar mix (agar-agar+*LDME+water) need to be boiled before straining through cheesecloth?
  • 2. Is my Cheesecloth too fine? I do also have wayy less fine cheesecloth available to use alternatively, & some ppl don't strain at all I think?..(however, it did work first time so I know my cheesecloth can strain just fine when I boil the mix together well enough to brown pot first)
  • 3.*edit I should have asked, 'Am I over-cooking?'
    *LDME I think at bottom of plate? I have never seen anyone say you need to shake the media bottle up before pouring into plates...but I am a noob to agar. My (overcooked) plates from first attempt won't show any signs of growth on them-with *LDME it shouldn't matter as much but maybe they don't have enough nutes..more likely they just got too hot and lost too much moisture (if heat retention in glass really is as big of a problem as I've gathered)my media bottles have a bunch of *LDME bits that don't blend in so it's not exactly crystal clear though it would be it not for what I assume is that stuff floating around (after straining through cheesecloth).


I'm using agar-agar powder packets
-ingredients list it as just agar-agar
I am also using *LDME bags from a brew store...

overall I think I followed c10s guide pretty closely

1st attempt: 
(overcooked it after PCing)

...My pot was turning brown at bottom when boiling/simmering mix...then I think my glass "media bottle" was hot for too long bc I let PC sit for too long I guess after PCing first time around...I think the heat of the glass over time maybe overcooked the media as well? glass thermo-insulation is the reason I don't want to do no-pour with glass plates/dishes after reading some else's issue)
I went out for several hrs and open my PC when I came home.

2nd attempt: 
(undercooked it before PCing)

this time I was worried about browning the pot so, I just heated it up until everything seemed combined-but I assume ofc this was my mistake on attempt #2. Then (after PCing for 20 mins and allowing to cool for about 25 mins) I opened my PC (in flow hood) and took media bottles out and waited about 25 more mins before I poured them, just letting the flowhood run on them - but they never started to solidify...just stayed liquid..when I was straining the cheesecloth I picked up a lot of, like, granular gel...I assume this was the unboiled agar-agar..I tried to re-boil the mix a little and re-add the agar but, every time I strained it seemed like the agar wouldn't pass and would be strained (remaining outside of the media bottle stuck way up in the cheesecloth/funnel part)..
with a gloved hand I even tried to force the stuff through the cheesecloth but it felt like cheap rubber bouncy ball material.

So next time I will boil everything properly but I'm worried about burning it, and hoping that if all goes right that I can put it in my flowhood and it will be clean there until I'm ready to use it..and also that the nutes are mixed in well..


any help appreciated.
Sorry if this is not the right way to post or anything


--------------------
son of a donkey

Edited by shoulderchips (10/04/26 06:19 PM)

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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: shoulderchips]
    #29676347 -

Hi, fellow noob here, someone else would be able to give you better advice, and feel free to correct me if i'm misleading here.

I don't think filtering agar with a cheesecloth is standard procedure, atleast not in any TEK i've read :sunny:

What works well for me is, i simmer the agar and water in a pot on medium to high heat. hard boil is unnessecary, atleast has been for me.

then straight from pot into media bottle, unscrew lid a quarter turn, foil the top and pc at 15psi for around 30 mins.

i dont think shaking the bottle is necessary, though i have been swirling it around a lil before pouring.

i happen to have a laser thermometer, makes the whole thing so much easier when you have a temp to go off.

good luck and have fun! :mushroom2:


--------------------
I wish you bountiful fruits and godspeed :heart:

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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: Mashedpotatoes]
    #29676352 -

if all I did wrong was not boil before PCing that would be great. I do want to cheesecloth strain/filter though but anyways

if that's all I did wrong and my assessment is basically accurate, then I should be safe to keep making more attempts..I don't get on Shroomery a lot but, based on this first reply I feel like I'm good to go for attempt #3
(without fear of wasting time and resources)

will check back here ASAP. thanks! :smile:


--------------------
son of a donkey

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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: shoulderchips]
    #29676360 -

I'm gonna look more into cheeseclothing agar i guess :rasta: I think it's got to be as dissolved as possible beforehand or you'll filter out the agar and it won't solidify properly im guessing.

But hell yeah, go get that agar my guy :rockon:


--------------------
I wish you bountiful fruits and godspeed :heart:

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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: Mashedpotatoes] * 1
    #29676368 -

The agar is probably clogging up your cheese cloth. I get some DME chunks in my agar. It doesn't cause any problems, but if you wanted to get rid of it, why not filter the DME/water first, allow it to cool completely, then just add the agar and bring it to boil?

Kloakk mentioned that they do their DME/water first and let it sit in the fridge for a while to settle. They then just pour off the clear stuff on top and discard the chunks

I do want to stress that you don't have to filter the mixture unless you're going for perfectly clear plates


--------------------
I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon]
    #29676372 -

PuffM4gicDr4gon said:
The agar is probably clogging up your cheese cloth. I get some DME chunks in my agar. It doesn't cause any problems, but if you wanted to get rid of it, why not filter the DME/water first, allow it to cool completely, then just add the agar and bring it to boil?

Kloakk mentioned that they do their DME/water first and let it sit in the fridge for a while to settle. They then just pour off the clear stuff on top and discard the chunks

I do want to stress that you don't have to filter the mixture unless you're going for perfectly clear plates


:whathesaid:

I don't let my DME(dry malt extract) mix sit in my fridge, but I do it with grain water.

For DME plates I:

Mix DME and RO or distilled water in a pot, stir most of the time while it's heating up. When it reaches boil I turn down to a light boil and let it boil 5 minutes, I then run the mix through a coffee filter(not needed if you don't care about clarity) and then add the mix back in the pot.

Add agar agar and stir while it comes back up to a boil, when it's boiling I turn the heat off and transfer it to a media bottle and PC for 25 minutes.

Wait until it's cooled to about 60°C(140°F) and pour plates, you can let it cool more if you're not doing a lot of plates at once.


--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: Kloakk]
    #29676724 -

Kloakk said:
PuffM4gicDr4gon said:
[... why not filter the DME/water first, allow it to cool completely, then just add the agar and bring it to boil?

Kloakk mentioned that they do...then just pour off the clear stuff on top and discard the chunks

...you don't have to filter the mixture unless you're going for perfectly clear plates]


:whathesaid:

I don't let my DME(dry malt extract) mix sit in my fridge, but I do it with grain water.

For DME plates I:

Mix DME and RO or distilled water in a pot, stir most of the time while it's heating up. When it reaches boil I turn down to a light boil and let it boil 5 minutes, I then run the mix through a coffee filter(not needed if you don't care about clarity) and then add the mix back in the pot.

Add agar agar and stir while it comes back up to a boil, when it's boiling I turn the heat off and transfer it to a media bottle and PC for 25 minutes.

Wait until it's cooled to about 60°C(140°F) and pour plates, you can let it cool more if you're not doing a lot of plates at once.


Oh my goodness thank you guys so much!
I can't decide if I will strain w/ a cheesecloth going forwards but I think I will (also strain agar-agar solution with cheesecloth) as I tbh would ideally like it as close to crystal-clear as possible..

My issue has been heating up the mix/solution in the pot with the agar, so I think I will do the malt extract ( I use *lightDME) first and heat, and I don't even need to weigh the agar bc they've always been exactly on weight ime (comes out to exactly to weight printed/stated on ea little baggy, so) then I'll just drop my agar-agar into the pot whenever or however I think it suitable.

Kloakk said:
...when it's boiling I turn the heat off...


I think this is/was my main concern and is what caused me to over-correct on attempt #2...I didn't and still don't know exactly how much to boil (and what all complications can be involved in this step).

So many ppl say they simply don't want it to boil over (in microwave).
I don't have microwave sized media bottles so I boil in super clean stainless steel pots, leaving me to wonder whether I over-cooked it as it doesn't boil over on me in the pot ime..just started browning on bottom of pot when boiling and sticking to the sides of the pot too! :mad:
I really tried not to burn it but by the time it started to boil it was already burned..:frown:

maybe if I wouldn't have left my media bottle slowly cooling in my PC for 5 hours it wouldn't have messed up (on attempt #1)
(my first set of dishes just don't seem to want to show any germination/contamination even though I'm coughing on them..maybe need to observe for longer...)

like cooking in general, this seems to take some practice on it's own (outside of playing with agar/LightDME/ratio)
I will try to boil it again without burning it...
I'm very unsure what to really think/do specifically regarding this bc I'm not exactly certain what I'm going for..
but I feel that if attempt #2  would have solidified, it would have been perfect-they looked clear although they had too little agar

(attempt/batch #1 are cloudy-not inoculating by contrast)


........thinking more outloud here actaully...maybe I'll just simply microwave it in clean mason jars so I don't have to worry anymore about burning the agar-agar lol...
does burning/overcooking make it cloudy for others?
Anyways
never seen others discuss issues I've had-sorry if I didn't search well enough...kind of surprised no one had any similar issues with c10's agar guide on his post replies but then again, I'm a noob.
 
I will update honestly-I swear I won't forget to get back on here and report whether I'm able to fix it and share findings.
thanks again and sorry for being so detailed-I always hope my experience might be relevant/helpful for others.


--------------------
son of a donkey

Edited by shoulderchips (09/30/26 11:29 AM)

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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: shoulderchips]
    #29676837 -

Don't strain or filter the solution after you add agar agar. When you say LME I guess you mean light malt extract in powder form? If that's the case then it's LDME. LME is liquid malt extract, in the brewing world anyway :lol:

If you decide to microwave it be aware that even if you watch it closely it can create air pockets that will pop and make a mess that sucks to clean up :uhoh:

Stir the whole time while you bring it to a boil in a pot and it won't burn or turn dark.


--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: Kloakk]
    #29682347 -

ok thanks & ya lol - light DME thanks for correction!

but anyways just FYI, nothing wrong with c10's method of filtering...

Kloakk said:
Don't strain or filter the solution after you add agar agar


I am filtering the agar agar through the cheesecloth and, it actually is working fine BUT- for someone struggling to get it in, I'd say either don't use filter/strain, or really just make sure to boil everything well enough beforehand (I'd recommend in microwave for ease) but possible cheesecloth doesn't even do much. I'm not sure however why NOT use microwave...I assume everyone can obtain microwavable clear glass???

as far as pot boiling, I really tried stirring a lot...
*(edit) I prob just need a smaller pot.
The cleanest plates I've seen here use a stir-stick while boiling in a pot on the stove-top...I'll have to try that next.


Anyways, NOW I'm mainly concerned about making best/healthiest plates as possible and still worried about overcooking in general (now that I know how to boil agar and get it through a cheesecloth after without burning the agar)

I wonder if overcooking is an issue for others?
*at least when using DME, cloudy plates actually seems to be a bigger issue than them not being nutritious enough for micro-organisms.
(especially with the nutes I imagine overcooking would make them much less fertile for germs??)  When I see the DME showing up as dark spots in the agar I feel like that's how I know I overcooked it....I mean, if I overcook too much, those dark spots of (what I assume is my light DME) just show up

....well I have an update anyways, so I'll just explain more there when I can find the time.. basically
my plates are working fine.....my very first batch I let them clump up before I poured so those never germinated anything easy to see for some reason...but all my other plates from attempt #1 are actually totally O.K.!
(they are showing contams now-which is what I want as I am testing them)


--------------------
son of a donkey

Edited by shoulderchips (10/04/26 06:15 PM)

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Re: Noob here-2 attempts w c10's cheesecloth agar filtering [Re: shoulderchips]
    #29683229 -

Update
I updated the symbol to a heart to indicate I'm all done here

c10's guide is perfect (more or less) as is.
I simply made some mistakes:

*edit updated the update

shoulderchips said:
overall I think I followed c10s guide pretty closely


forgot important step - to add small amnt of water first...

more below


shoulderchips said:
Does the agar mix (agar-agar+*LDME+water) need to be boiled before straining through cheesecloth?


Yes . Cheesecloth is NOT the issue. Mine is NOT too fine.

Kloakk said:
Don't strain or filter the solution after you add agar agar.


just to reiterate, c10s method is fine, literally :smirk: . Cheesecloth is ok! just boil mix together well before filtering/straining!
This leads me to another thing I said in last post.
Using clear containers (like mason jars) to microwave (,ime, practically) eliminates the risk of burning the agar and allows you to get the perfect amnt of boiling so you can pour through a cheesecloth with no issues *but I'll have to get a smaller pot and try again-also I really want top try using a stir stick while boiling on stove-top
Quote:
(from c10's agar guide, about mixing)
c10h12n2o said:
[weight out agar-agar...weigh out light malt extract...]...then add a small amount of cold water (tap is fine), just enough to mix the powders into a thick liquid.


THIS^, is probably my biggest mistake
Boiling the agar-agar and my LDME separately is, ime, unnecessary. I do now, however, mix my LDME in the smallest comfortable amount of water to make the thick liquid as instructed, and then, immediately after, I mix the rest of water(followed by all of the agar-agar powder packets)into the thick liquid...but I boil it all together in a jar after that. :thumbup:
Following c10's instruction here (ime) eliminates that higher likelihood of brown bits of overcooked LDME at the end (as long as I don't over cook it when microwaving/boiling and PCing)


Quote:
(from c10's agar guide, about PCing)
c10h12n2o said:
I then put hot water into the pressure cooker until it is close to level with the agar in the bottles, then close the lid and fasten it down. now we vent the PC by keeping the pressure valve open and turning the heat on until there is a constant plume of steam and reduce heat to medium-low to maintain this plume of steam. start a timer for 10 minutes and let it vent until the time is up...
...when the 10 minutes is up, flip your valve (or apply your weight) and allow pressure to start building up. when it gets above 15 psi, start a timer for 20 minutes and...


I feel like I have forgotten how to use a PC I guess...just reread instructions.. I thought you just waited for it to steam and then put the rocker on..always how I've done it I think....anyways
I guess the media we're making here can handle being boiled/cooked for at least 15-20 mins extra waiting for steam and venting...
...I was worried I was waiting too long to add rocker...but maybe my issue is actually more not venting if anything... idk,, doesn't seem super important but I'll do that going forwards


shoulderchips said:
My pot was turning brown at bottom when boiling/simmering mix


Leaving the PC to cool for wayy too long is ofc a larger contributor to overcooking and final product turning brown, but over-boiling on the stovetop is a more immediate cause of overcooking (ime)
Supposedly, as long as it's not being boiled too much stove-top boiling is ok. *(I probably just need a smaller pot)

I searched a long time but, I know I seen someone doing no-pours express concern regarding their glass "plates" over-cooking themselves (unable to cool quickly enough), presumably either drying end product out too much*(DRY PLATES PROB NOT AN ISSUE-ppl dry their plates out all the time to remove condensation on purpose), or over cooking nutes...basically leaving you with a browned end product that's just supposedly not showing contams as readily as it should............*possibly just too cloudy
but it's super easy to correct-just remove from heat and pour plates asap.
also I am starting to doubt that as a real major issue...

ultimately my newest plates (from newer attempts that I haven't discussed AND are certainly NOT overcooked) don't actually seem to be (test)contaming/germinating any better honestly-just easier to see through.... so maybe probably the obsession with not overcooking at all is just speculative over-precaution...Ofc if you PC for more than 25-30 mins it will turn brown and same for boiling on stove for too long *(but other overheating factors are likely negligible)

but this slight overheating concern (especially involving glass) is the reason I decided not to do no-pours though so I'll try to find that users' post and replies for reference....bc I feel like I sound crazy/misinformed

Anyways
my flow hood works. My plates that I most recently made don't contam at room temp unless I open them up to dirty air.
They do contaminate normally (testing them) so I misspoke earlier...

the only ones that don't work well (from first attempt) are the ones where the agar-agar partially solidified but I stupidly dumped the clumpy stuff into plates anyways just ignorantly hoping it might still work the same more or less... but you really want it to be a smooth 2d surface....all the other plates from attempt #1 work fine..just a little brown and cloudy

anyways
Thanks everyone. hope my info is helpful !


--------------------
son of a donkey

Edited by shoulderchips (10/07/26 12:39 PM)

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