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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: gww]
    #29647773 -

No, not blue no matter who. DSA in the primary, DSA in the general, DSA now.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: Icon]
    #29647776 -

Or trump, yea I think I got you.  I think I always got you.

Edited by gww (08/14/26 08:10 PM)

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: gww]
    #29647796 -

This is like the train scenario where a bunch of DSA people tied to the track are pleading to stop the train. And you're the conductor saying "yeahh but a bunch of retired middle class folk are having a good time on the train, and we just want to keep the train on the tracks. Blame the train company. Hop on if you can tho!" :dopefish:

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: Icon]
    #29647805 -

You are the conductor cause you run over dsa voters if you don't get it all and could not convince enough.  The middle is not the only one that gets hurt more then they should.  When you lose, it doesn't mean you can't try again in two years and make gains where you can.  There is no short game.  If people think you are stupid, you get set even further back. Nobody trust a hater that wants to fuck them if they don't get it all at once.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: gww] * 1
    #29647845 -

DSA is a reaction to establishment Dems not delivering to its entire base. Its similar to the Tea Party without the rednecks and of course the politicial stance but an apt comparison, nevertheless.

What happened to the Tea Party? The GOP co opted those muthafuckas in good order. All I am saying is look for true Donkeys and Blue Dogs to do the same...the bones they will through to passify and appease while adding them to the same old, same old...will be legion.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: ashfiken] * 2
    #29647847 -

ashfiken said:
Right. They are currently fooled by the giant lobbying and propaganda wing they run of low tax on everything we can tax and should tax. And regressive, suffocating tax for the majority.
Da same shitslop low brow laps up..
Their minds simply need to be changed and to see it can and will come for them next, there is no more that can be extracted from the bottom 50%, guess where the next slice of pie to be eaten is?
The middle class has to realize this as fact.
Resulting in eventual tax on the ultra wealthy and corporations in progressive fashion



Billionaires run it, multi millionaires support it.. theyre the top 1% and top 0.001%.

The middle class and bottom 50% do need to vote against this.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #29647852 -

Trump co-opted the republican party.  He was just better at it then the tea party.  But it did not end up being a good thing.  Something to consider.  Dsa cannot do it on thier own and the establishment cannot do it on thier own.  Many advances have been made through out history by internal conflict but new parties have only funneled strength away from each other when the opposition stays fairly stable.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: gww] * 1
    #29647954 -

Word salad.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: sudly]
    #29647964 -

sudly said:
ashfiken said:
Right. They are currently fooled by the giant lobbying and propaganda wing they run of low tax on everything we can tax and should tax. And regressive, suffocating tax for the majority.
Da same shitslop low brow laps up..
Their minds simply need to be changed and to see it can and will come for them next, there is no more that can be extracted from the bottom 50%, guess where the next slice of pie to be eaten is?
The middle class has to realize this as fact.
Resulting in eventual tax on the ultra wealthy and corporations in progressive fashion



Billionaires run it, multi millionaires support it.. theyre the top 1% and top 0.001%.

The middle class and bottom 50% do need to vote against this.



So again you want the bottom 50% to vote for higher taxes. Why would they? Have they seen the government keep things running gang busters with money they do get.

Hawaii pays the highest taxes, but they are 34th in overall education. Highest per capita homelessness. Ranked highest cost of living.

Redirecting back the DSA’s,  I feel like the 3 am ballot dumped happen in California again, telling me that the democrats party cast there candidates and elections are an way to hide it. Mai Vang follow the timeline and wacth when the votes get dumped and she pulls ahead to win.
Mai Vang will be the governor in California at somepoint im sure of it.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: vicepope]
    #29647978 -

What do you mean vote for higher taxes?

Who for? Income taxes? Private healthcare effective taxes? Capital gains taxes?

"Higher taxes" means nothing without context, without an explanation its a buzzword like communist.

Despite its higher income tax rate, Hawaii has a two tier tax system that gives substantial preferences to wealth over labor.

Quote:
Hawaiʻi’s two-tier tax system: How the rich use a glaring loophole to pay less

In Hawaiʻi, how you earn your money can determine how much tax you pay. This system is rigged in favor of the wealthiest among us.

While teachers, nurses and service workers pay income tax on every dollar they earn, the wealthy can shield a large portion of their profits thanks to a special tax break on capital gains.

Capital gains are the profits from the sale of assets like stocks, bonds, art, antiques and real estate. These profits are collected almost entirely by Hawaiʻi’s very wealthiest households—yet they are taxed at a significantly lower rate than income from work. This costly loophole not only reduces state revenue but fundamentally shifts the tax burden away from those most able to pay.

Currently, Hawaiʻi’s income tax rates follow a progressive structure, ranging from 1.4 percent to 11 percent for high earners. However, long-term capital gains are capped at a maximum rate of just 7.25 percent. This creates a substantial tax break for the wealthy. For example, an individual earning over $200,000 would pay the top 11 percent rate on their salary, while their investment profits are shielded at the lower 7.25 percent rate.

This disparity exacerbates economic inequality. Lower-income families, who rely almost exclusively on wages to make ends meet, rarely realize significant capital gains. The data is stark: over 70 percent of long-term capital gains in Hawaiʻi are accrued by taxpayers with incomes exceeding $400,000. Closing this loophole is a necessary step toward creating a tax system that treats all income equally, and one that is capable of funding solutions to Hawaiʻi’s greatest challenges

https://hiappleseed.org/blog/hawaii-two-tier-tax-system-glaring-loophole-rich-pay-less




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: Icon] * 1
    #29648031 -

Icon said:
ashfiken said:
Their minds simply need to be changed and to see it can and will come for them next, there is no more that can be extracted from the bottom 50%, guess where the next slice of pie to be eaten is?
The middle class has to realize this as fact.
Resulting in eventual tax on the ultra wealthy and corporations in progressive fashion



Hence accelerationism. Withholding your vote or even voting for capitalists, until the situation is bad enough for the middle class to realize it's time to stop playing monopoly.

If not they'll just keep milking their middle class standards for as long as possible, taking as small steps as possible.



Not a bad strategy.

Ive been witholding my vote for years with this in mind. Ther3 has been no policy or individuals i could vote for that i could actually support, The 2 party (uniparty) system we have, which are the capitalists you speak of, have been the only game in town.
Just opt out of da game, or only vote when policy or a 3rd party real human runs.

In congruence, to not voting for capitalists, i try to "vote with my dollar" also, bc im poor this probably matters little, but if many were to "opt out", it would cause a dent in their bottom line.
Ive made a hard attempt to severely limit my use of any google, meta, and amazon,walmart and like-level corporations. Restict my data collection and their advertising numbers.
Little silent personal protests and i encourage others to try to do the same.

However, i also think with that sort of accelerationism, we need to get loud about them being eaten next. Just as it getting bad  for them , visibly, would usher change, actually turning them to fear the ultra-wealthy, would accelerate things,too.
And this fear isnt fake or misplaced either, its real, and it is coming for them, its just how do we get them to realize it.
Much of the problem in making head way there could also be attributed to hard headed and selfish baby boomers that might have zero interest in moving any needle at all, bc they just figure theyll be dead and gone soon enough.
And that may be just what we have yo wait for also, for all of them to pass, and gtfo the way, for ideologies like dsa to take larger root in political sphere


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #29648033 -

The tea party was an astroturf movement to begin with which eventually morphed into MAGA and now runs the GOP after the establishment neocons lost control.

It is an apt description of why both movements were so successful though. But the progressive voters propelling the DSA candidates forward aren't low information, gullible, uneducated voters free of critical thinking and susceptible to fact free lies and propaganda the same way tea party voters were and MAGA are.

The GOP let the alt-right off it's leash and now they run the party. Though they've been coopted by the same billionaires and oligarchs who were also controlling/using the neocons before them...I don't see the billionaires and oligarchs controlling the neoliberal democratic establishment being able to coopt the progressives as easily.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: sudly] * 1
    #29648034 -

sudly said:
What do you mean vote for higher taxes?

Who for? Income taxes? Private healthcare effective taxes? Capital gains taxes?

"Higher taxes" means nothing without context, without an explanation its a buzzword like communist.

Despite its higher income tax rate, Hawaii has a two tier tax system that gives substantial preferences to wealth over labor.

Quote:
Hawaiʻi’s two-tier tax system: How the rich use a glaring loophole to pay less

In Hawaiʻi, how you earn your money can determine how much tax you pay. This system is rigged in favor of the wealthiest among us.

While teachers, nurses and service workers pay income tax on every dollar they earn, the wealthy can shield a large portion of their profits thanks to a special tax break on capital gains.

Capital gains are the profits from the sale of assets like stocks, bonds, art, antiques and real estate. These profits are collected almost entirely by Hawaiʻi’s very wealthiest households—yet they are taxed at a significantly lower rate than income from work. This costly loophole not only reduces state revenue but fundamentally shifts the tax burden away from those most able to pay.

Currently, Hawaiʻi’s income tax rates follow a progressive structure, ranging from 1.4 percent to 11 percent for high earners. However, long-term capital gains are capped at a maximum rate of just 7.25 percent. This creates a substantial tax break for the wealthy. For example, an individual earning over $200,000 would pay the top 11 percent rate on their salary, while their investment profits are shielded at the lower 7.25 percent rate.

This disparity exacerbates economic inequality. Lower-income families, who rely almost exclusively on wages to make ends meet, rarely realize significant capital gains. The data is stark: over 70 percent of long-term capital gains in Hawaiʻi are accrued by taxpayers with incomes exceeding $400,000. Closing this loophole is a necessary step toward creating a tax system that treats all income equally, and one that is capable of funding solutions to Hawaiʻi’s greatest challenges

https://hiappleseed.org/blog/hawaii-two-tier-tax-system-glaring-loophole-rich-pay-less





Since 2018 and dumbass trumpoo helping his corporatist bros,
Corporate taxes are paid at a lower rate than the average persons income tax.
Make. it. make. sense.

Yeah higher corporate taxes and an actual wealth tax thats what higher taxes should look like.
And get rid of private payer healthcare for workers, institute a flat tax for all.
Boom. Base level healthcare for all, at a cheaper rate than americans are currently getting raped by healthcare.

Its funny how many americans dont realize healthcare is just a hidden super regressive tax anyway, paid on the back-end.
So much better off paying it up front and setting up a system to be done with the racket we currently have


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Edited by ashfiken (08/15/26 06:27 AM)

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: ashfiken] * 1
    #29648081 -

The division in the Democratic Party is not class based.

Progressives are younger, more educated, more secular, more urban, and whiter.

Working class Dems are less likely to be progressive.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #29648333 -

SirTripAlot said:
What happened to the Tea Party?



In order to apply the principle of what was the original Boston Tea Party, you would have to be so thrifty and self-sufficient as to be ungovernable.

Tea Party 2 was not rugged individualists, but mostly entitled Boomers, who believe in regulatory capture of essential sectors.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: Brian Jones]
    #29648368 -


I think you meant the working class dems are progressive?

I put what you said into google to try to understand what you meant and it did elaborate that blue collar workers are less likely to be progressive on social and cultural issues. And that makes sense. I'm more focused on economic reform, where working class people tend to be more progressive.


Edited by Icon (08/15/26 04:54 PM)

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: Icon] * 1
    #29648543 -

Young people are always been more progressive,  because they feel they are deserve..... anything. As time goes the education system teaches thst they are special,  that they can do anything and the you can choice your family.  Breaking up the collective community out look for the conversation of any easy life. President Johnson planned is out policy decision in the education system because he know the out come over let's say 80 years.

A long time ago my asian studies who lived in China in the 70s and early 80s said "only young people believe in communism ,cause only the young have hope for the future with rose tinted glasses. "


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: vicepope]
    #29650629 -

I have committed my fair share of fashion and musical crimes. Not all counter culture is altruistic. You have promoted some of these people to piss off your parents.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: durian_2008]
    #29650648 -

No one important in the counter culture has ever been a good person nor done any good to anyone. Change my mind.
Democratic socialist is just the newer softer language for communism, to such no one here who believes in the cause, can give a detailed, well thought out plan on how to achieve there causes goals. With mathematical policys .


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: vicepope]
    #29650683 -

Newer softer language for communism?

Do you see any difference or are you just putting it down to language?

"The counter culture" isnt specific either.

And with mathematical policies, Yale just put out another study about universal healthcare.

Quote:
Universal Health Coverage Could Save $1 Trillion and 114,000 Lives Every Year, Yale Study Projects



https://ysph.yale.edu/news-article/universal-health-coverage-could-save-one-trillion-dollars-and-114000-lives-every-year/




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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