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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: solarshroomster]
    #29622801 -

solarshroomster said:
I'm just not understanding this Buddhist tradition at all of sitting and stilling your mind if all of this is your mind. I don't get it. I'm told I'm not supposed to be achieving a special state or looking to achieve anything, so what the heck then is the point? If my mind exists, I want to point it to something interesting. Which is where mysticism has led me.




You should have fun meditating. They call it the middle way.

There is very definitely a goal: Nirvana or Buddhahood. But desperately trying
to achieve something is most likely a kind of attachment. You should achieve
the spiritual goal without being attached. It does not help achieving anything,
and is a hindrance, actually.

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #29622812 -

Blue Cthulhu said:
It does seem sometimes like Buddhists are too serious and have lost touch with childlike wonder and play. We have to poke and prod and tease them until they get angry and realize they’ve been too serious


I don't know about other Buddhists, but for me, playing works
exceptionally well. I don't see any conflict with Buddhism at all.

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: AnattaAtman]
    #29622824 -

Besides, of course, suffering is dead serious. End it for yourself, or
end it for everyone. No fooling around with that.

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: AnattaAtman]
    #29623388 -

AnattaAtman said:
Besides, of course, suffering is dead serious. End it for yourself, or
end it for everyone. No fooling around with that.


When you can not achieve tranquility in a realistic way, all of mental contents are reflexive and that is suffering in a nutshell.

however, the more the mental chaos can be tempered, the less mental reflex (memory, attitude, conditioning...) takes over the mind-space in which Nature is reflected along with mental reflexes.

there is no simple way to convey this to someone who does not observe mind, but imagines they are doing meditation for some purpose like enlightenment or to stop a particular bad habit; meanwhile distractions keep twisting and turning their awareness.

awareness practice is calming (in the face of change/distractions) but it is mind calming mind, a habit making space for freer habits, not ego or self fighting suffering, not a persistent self fighting mara, that is a cartoon of Buddhism with cartoon versions of cause and effect.

eg. the following illustration is a cartoon representation of the many ways suffering can be expressed through stages in human life (as a wheel), but it misses the whole point of understanding mind as a space ruled by habit and subject to change. we have to learn to be resilient and to recover from distraction without being upset.



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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29623441 -

redgreenvines said:
however, the more the mental chaos can be tempered, the less mental reflex (memory, attitude, conditioning...) takes over the mind-space in which Nature is reflected along with mental reflexes.





Quote:
Chaos and complexity theories study nonlinear, dynamic systems where small changes in initial conditions produce radically unpredictable outcomes (the "butterfly effect"). While chaotic systems are unpredictable but deterministic, complex systems go a step further by spontaneously organizing themselves into entirely new structures and behaviors.



--------------------
All communication
is pattern
and rhythm

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #29623449 -

the mind space is filled of active mental contents which are ideally half a reflection of Nature that is changing moment by moment, and the other half being the memory reflex to all of active mental contents of a moment before.

the practice of tranquility (like breathing meditation) works by balancing the active mental content derived from senses and the active mental content derived from memory (the reflexes of mind).



you could say that the  light is sensation or body and external events reflected in active mental contents, and the dark is active mental content that emerges from memory by association to the whole of active mental contents a moment before. the dots remind us of the continuum of moments preceding and following the two sources of all mental content.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29623863 -

Quote:
I'm against the idea of productivity for productivity's sake, but at the same time, I don't see a point to a practice that just involves not trying to realize anything.


the point is to practice access to tranquility - to set time aside for that work.
each time tranquility is practiced, accessing it becomes a more likely reflex in life
if you already have insight to the essential value of tranquility then the practice extends that insight
if you do not already know the value of tranquility as a flexing and yielding resource along the way, then the practice might reveal the need and value of it.

each aspect of mind that you learn adds to your even-minded insight
eg associativity in reflexive perception, and association of senses, feelings and ideas in each moment's memory, how the suppression of what does not change among active mental contents produces shifts in the rapid continuum of awareness, the senses, and reflex responses and recollections, etc.

all of those insights are sustained by tranquility and by contact in the moment. Not each person learns the same things, but most meditators will tell you something about change is fundamental, necessitating being flexible and tranquil, and at least temporarily helping to transcend reflexive responses to each change you become aware of.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29623979 -

Well that is pretty cool

I would say you can come far just by sitting on the cushion

I think one practices more and more

Also by following the breath

But of course all these other methods and practices help too! :smile:


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Ferdinando]
    #29623984 -

The calming is very helpful

I think tranquility is too

I think so (calming)


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Ferdinando]
    #29624067 -

Rgv i think you said you start over with each meditation session

Whats then the point of sitting more than one session

Also, doesnt the meditation benefit and then again some more next time

Doesnt progress build up upon the earlier or what its called and pile up and add up

:smile:


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Ferdinando]
    #29624074 -

Ferdinando said:
Rgv i think you said you start over with each meditation session



even during the session you usually must start over several times, eg. after each distraction.


Ferdinando said:Whats then the point of sitting more than one session



more than one session in a day, helps make sitting more familiar, but once per day is terrific if you can keep it up regularly.

Quote:
Ferdinando said:
Also, doesnt the meditation benefit and then again some more next time



Only in the sense, that the process of accessing beginner's mind becomes more familiar.
i.e. reorienting to tranquility with presence (awareness).

Quote:
Ferdinando said:Doesnt progress build up upon the earlier or what its called and pile up and add up

:smile:


we are not adding machines, but some of us are obsessed with number habits.
we are habit creatures, so navigating with a habit of being present and aware makes sense.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29624091 -

I’ve been thinking about Beginner’s Mind recently. It seems like there are layers and levels to it. The deeper the level, the more conditioning that is shed, and the more childlike wonder that is recovered (uncovered?).

Maybe it’s like there is a personal Sun inside each of us, and we are removing the clouds and debris that obscure it.


How this is actually done, is something of a Mystery to me. It’s good to go into the void and forget everything, so that something New can come out


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All communication
is pattern
and rhythm

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #29624117 -

how it is done, is by presence and letting go.
not exactly forgetting, but not ferreting through the memory tunnels.
being present is about memory being present but yielding to fresh awareness
and tranquility is about letting go of tensions while memory rests
  this also is yin yang or spinning the thread :yinyang:


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29624225 -

That may be true, I just think that Mystery is a necessary ingredient to that recipe


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All communication
is pattern
and rhythm

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #29624301 -

of course,
we are all continuously  at the threshold of the next moment
even when we get lost in the past (ricocheting through memories) - the next moment is still a mystery.
that is a given.
no matter how deep a hole we crawl into, the next moment is a mystery.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29624421 -

Maybe the preceding moment is a mystery too. Memory being an impossible attempt at reconstructing the past, from the point of view of linear time. And from the point of view of non-linear time, the past never even was.

But speaking of thresholds, I'm a big fan of the Roman god Janus, god of the threshold. Just a cool concept, to sanctify the very notion of threshold itself, the liminal moment


--------------------
All communication
is pattern
and rhythm

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #29624686 -

Spinning the thread is very good :psychsplit:

Also

We have to get to goal with the question

Also when we meditate

Like quality

And what happens

Etc.


And increase light
Also when we meditate
Also from the meditation i think

Fruition or what it's called


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Ferdinando]
    #29624687 -

Today i did that

From my meditation

Quite a bit

It is about how much we do it

Also when we dont meditate


--

(Like your action more in order. And even life k think. Everything. Same for others there will be


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: Ferdinando] * 1
    #29624754 -

one common distraction is noticing things in meditation that you feel compelled to talk about.
then wasting meditation time by figuring out how you will describe your idea.
you do not have to talk about it - it is a private practice.
try to stay with the breath and the presence.

just doing it is what it is about, not measuring it, talking about it, or imagining how it affects the world, just doing it.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Om Mani Padme Hum [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29626915 -

Look in strange new directions,
Ones you never even knew existed
[LIKE HERE]
Be AMAZED!

redgreenvines said:
one common distraction is noticing things in meditation that you feel compelled to talk about.
then wasting meditation time by figuring out how you will describe your idea.
you do not have to talk about it - it is a private practice.



Yes!! This is something I have definitely worked hard to learn: you don't need to explain your experience. In fact, trying to explain your experience takes you away from it. I call it the "mutar paneer" effect. When I go to eat for Indian, I really enjoy the experience of it. But I can't ever be sure if you're tasting the exact same thing. I kind of have faith that you do though. Nevertheless, I don't go around screaming "are you experiencing this? And this?!! And THAT?!!" when I'm eating mutar paneer like I sometimes seem to want to do during visions. I used to fall for that, but have gotten much better in holding back.

In transcendent states, I want so badly to explain it, but I know the folly in that now.

Magic is FOR YOU!
I don't get the whole breath thing of Buddhism though. Not sure what that's about. Zen, sitting Zazen!


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Magic is FOR YOU. :mushroom2:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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