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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: koma23]
    #29564502 -

I don't think light is as much of a problem for psilocybin as for psilocin. But I don't have much evidence of that beyond that my dried materials last for years without any particular effort to keep them in the dark. The tea crystals I have been testing are in a clear jar that I keep on my desk and they have not lost any detectable potency in the first 200 days.



Still, disabling the oven bulb for the next drying test couldn't hurt.


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Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29564536 -

Most ovens the light only runs when the door is open.


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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29566768 -

Quote:
ReverendMyc said: This is why I no longer recommend adding citric acid to the extraction phase of gummy making. I am now having doubts about adding it at all to the gummy recipe. It is possible that it is bad for potency over time in the gummies.


The articles in the the lemon tek thread and some articles on sonic extraction have me convinced that achieving the right PH level is key, and that using ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to get the right PH instead of citric acid is better. One of the articles on the lemon tek thread mentions that psilocybin is stable somewhere between 5 and 6 PH and that the conversion to psilocin starts somewhere around 4 PH   
Ascorbic acid is used a preservative in quite a lot of stuff and apparently this works for psilocybin as well.

Maybe adding acid is a good idea after all, as long as the PH levels stay between 5 and 6.

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Cobal]
    #29567710 -

Could be. I will need to look at the ph of the gummy mix before adding any acids. The flavoring may already have an impact of the ph and different flavors may even have different effects. I suspect that more tart flavors are more acidic.

I have also seen a study that showed that orange juice was more effective at converting and maintaining psilocin levels than lemon juice per HPLC testing. The drop off with lemon tek (ph 2.0 - 2.6) was much faster when compared to orange juice (ph 3.3 - 4.2) extraction. That would also seem to corroborate the idea that acidic, but not too acidic is ideal.


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Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 8
    #29567735 -

Vacuum vs Heat extraction

New test:
Using 50 grams of old dehydrated tampanensis pollock. I shook the jar then measured out 50 grams. I shredded and blended the materials by hand then separated them into 25 grams in two jars. Then weighed each pile again to make sure they were equal. After returning each pile to their quart jars I added 800 ml of water to each and shook both vigorously with two-piece lids on.

One jar was placed into a medium sized sauce pan with 3 inches of hot water and placed on a burner until reaching a boil. Then a timer was set for 15 minutes. While waiting for the water to boil I used a vacuum pump on the other jar to pull a strong vacuum and seal the lid and left that jar at room temperature.

After 15 minutes of double boiling and unheated vacuum extraction I used a French press to separate the teas from the dregs and pour the teas into silicone mini muffin and cookie molds on dehydrator trays. I used the mold colors to track which teas were which and placed them in the dehydrator to start a 48 hour dry.
Then I started a second decoction of each and followed the same procedures.

After 48+ hours I removed the dried tea molds from the dehydrator and by squeezing, pinching, and rolling the molds, I was able to capture most of the crystals into separate pint canning jars.
From the vacuum batch I recovered 3.02 grams of crystals.
From the heated batch I recovered 2.38 grams of crystals.
I had hoped that the vacuum crystals would contain less sugars and possibly be more clear for recipe use, but found that both sets of crystals were nearly identical in color and texture.

Finally, I did Miraculix Qtest potency tests on both batches.
Vacuum tea crystals = 10.33 mg/g
Heated tea crystals = 11.22 mg/g
When multiplying total recovery by potency:
Vacuum: 3.02 g x 10.33 mg/g = 31.2 mg actives
Heated: 2.38 g x 11.22 mg/g = 26.7 mg actives

So, the vacuum extraction appears to extract more total actives while the heated tea offers a little more potency by weight.

This is only one test and there are more follow-ups I would like to do. First, I want to test on fresh materials versus using dried to start. I am curious if more psilocin might be preserved by skipping the initial dehydration step. Second, I want to bioassay 1 gram of each to see if there is any detectable difference. Third, I would like to try a larger jar or more head room for the vacuum sample. The quart jars were nearly full with liquid when drawing the vacuum, so I am not 100% sure that provided enough effect for the vacuum to act on the liquid and extraction materials. Forth, just need to test if the results are repeatable. Still, I thought this was an interesting result and wanted to share what I know so far.

Some pictures from the process.







I ended up cutting the 6 piece trays into individual cups to collect the crystals into jars, but didn’t take any pictures of those. The silicone cups were far easier to work with than anything I had tried so far for this step, but it is still pretty tedious. I tried to find who suggested silicone cups to me and don’t see it, but thank you muchly. They were both far better than glass or plastic petri dishes, condiment cups, or fruit leather trays.

Edit: to clarify some steps.


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Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

Edited by ReverendMyc (05/04/26 02:56 PM)

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29567759 -

Always a pleasure to read a post such as this.

Question: did the vacuum jar get heated? And, if so, is that not dangerous (genuinely asking)?

Edit: nevermind, I see the title is heat vs vacuum extraction, so the vacuum jar was not heated. I was confused by the wording in the paragraph describing your extraction process.


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MUSHROOMS RULE

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Dala] * 2
    #29567772 -

Sorry. No heat on the vacuum jars. Just used the lid sucker and left them on the counter at room temperature next to the stove top doing the double boil.

Like so.

I will take a look at that wording. I always know what I mean so it is easy to skip steps in the descriptions.
:homerdoh3:


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Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29567926 -

I wouldn't doubt your wording; I'd wager I was drawing conclusions from the tainted well of assumptions 😉 but thankee for the clarification :hatsoff:

With this new understanding, the vacuum results are amazing! Easy process and no babysitting a stove. So cool.


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MUSHROOMS RULE

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Dala]
    #29568424 -

Rev I had to create an account to let you know how grateful I am for your work! Low cost and stability oriented testing was my interrest and you're simply doing it. Thank you so much.

Do you guys think that a manual vacuum pump as the one one uses to suck air from a opened wine bottle with the dedicated cork works as well as that electric device you use (reference appreciated aswell) ?

This is the kind of manual vacuum pump im talking about : https://cdn.etrias.nl/media/cache/product_lg/8/7/8714793098121.jpg
Apparently it achieves -5 psi or 500 Torr.

Also, I just read that soaking the biomass in water 30min before applying the vacuum could help the extraction...what do you think ? Potential psilocybin degradation ?

The instant active tea stability test has blew my mind.
Now that vacuum thing is just a double rainbow all the fkn way.
Such an easy way to make an extract in the wild...

Edited by 2559 (05/05/26 02:22 PM)

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: 2559] * 1
    #29568515 -

2559 said:
Rev I had to create an account to let you know how grateful I am for your work! Low cost and stability oriented testing was my interrest and you're simply doing it. Thank you so much.


You are very kind. Welcome to the forums!


Quote:
Do you guys think that a manual vacuum pump as the one one uses to suck air from a opened wine bottle with the dedicated cork works as well as that electric device you use (reference appreciated aswell) ?

This is the kind of manual vacuum pump im talking about : https://cdn.etrias.nl/media/cache/product_lg/8/7/8714793098121.jpg
Apparently it achieves -5 psi or 500 Torr.


Before I got the electric vacuum thingy I was using one like this.


With this attacment for jars.


That worked fine and drew a vacuum just as well if you don't mind a little mini-workout for each use. :muscles: So, surely the wine thing should be similar if you can find the proper attachment... or you use wine bottles instead of canning jars. That is probably what you meant and I just realized it.

Here is an amazon link to the one I have now, though. They are relatively inexpensive if you are in the market. Mine has lasted for years of regular use.

Quote:
Also, I just read that soaking the biomass in water 30min before applying the vacuum could help the extraction...what do you think ? Potential psilocybin degradation ?


With fresh materials, I don't think that a soak will matter because the mush is already 90%+ water, but that is just a guess. If you grind up your fresh I would worry about oxidation of psilocin but with whole mushrooms or sclerotia I doubt soaking would do any help or harm as long as the cell walls remain in tact.

For dried mush materials, you are mostly working with psilocybin and not starting with much psilocin so a short soak is not likely to do much harm but I wouldn't go for a long soak. In my experience with gummy recipes, letting dried mush tea sit over night in a refrigerator caused a significant loss in potency.

Quote:
Such an easy way to make an extract in the wild...


I may be easy, but I am also cheap. Or something like that.

I am glad to hear if what I share is helpful. I appreciate you taking the time. Stick around, this place is full of good information and helpful souls in an old wild west sort of way.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29568617 -

So I take it that the vacuum extracted mushrooms could be consumed like a tea if I am not drying it out. Seems like a great way to make tea. Thank you for doing all this research.

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Caffeineo] * 1
    #29568716 -

I would think so. Maybe even better for preserving the psilocin in fresh without the heat exposure. Could be quite a kick, but we need a volunteer to go first. I don't have anything fresh coming up for a while to test it myself. I should really do something about that.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29569074 -

Thanks. Now I need to get one of those electric vacuum sealers and give it a go.

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Caffeineo]
    #29569149 -

What if we combined these two methods — vacuum hot tea?
Bring to a boil, then pour the whole thing into a vacuum container, pump out the air, and wait 15 minutes? Overkill?


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"How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Blizzloo] * 5
    #29569353 -

I'm late to the party with this thread but I think I can add some valuable information from my own deep dive into the research about the chemistry of alkaloid degradation and extraction methods.

Firstly, hot water extractions. Adding the fungal material to cold water and heating it to boiling point causes unnecessary alkaloid degradation. This is because the Psi L enzymatic reaction needs oxygen to convert psilocin into its inactive psilocyl oligomer as you can see on the diagram below.



Cold or room temperature water contains dissolved oxygen which fuels the blueing reaction, so boiling the water rapidly first to de-oxygenate it before adding the fungal material stops the blueing reaction from occurring and reduces degradation during extraction. This is why you never see mushroom tea made with boiling water go blue and also protects the alkaloids from degrading when the tea is simmered.

Similarly, alkaloid degradation can be reduced if cold water extractions are made with rapidly boiled water that's been allowed to cool in an oxygen free environment. You can see that illustrated here. Cold water straight from the tap on the left, de-oxygenated water on the right.



Chopping and mashing fresh fruits during an extraction also leads to unnecessary potency losses. It's mentioned in the "Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis" paper that extractions of whole fresh fruits led to higher potency extractions than chopped fruits, "in the case of fresh fungal fruiting bodies, the extraction of larger unprocessed pieces of fresh fruiting bodies was found to be more effective than chopping these mushrooms into small pieces."

And on processing and extraction temperatures the science is clear. The hotter the drying or processing temperature, the faster the alkaloids degrade. This is due to heat being a catalyst for the chemical reactions that cause the alkaloids to degrade, ie. enzymatic degradation, hydrolysis, oxidisation and photo-degradation.

There's a rough rule of thumb in chemistry that the rate of chemical reactions double with every 10C increase in temperature, so every 10C increase in drying temperature doubles the loss of potency during the drying process, for example.

And with aqueous solutions the research shows that at 90C around 17% of the psilocybin content in a solution degrades into psilocin per hour and at 70C around 4% of the psilocybin content degrades into psilocin per hour, which follows the 10C increase in temperature rule of thumb mentioned above.

The adverse effects of temperature on potency loss is obviously more pronounced during the drying process because the fruits are exposed to elevated temperatures for long periods of time. Using the research mentioned above, a 10 hour drying time at 70C could potentially lead to a 30 to 40% loss of potency compared to fruits dried at lower temperatures.

All the research on drying and potency recommends drying the fruits at room temperature (20 to 25C) in complete darkness and under 40C (104F) if using a dehydrator and similarly extractions should be done at low temperatures to prevent unnecessary potency losses. It's worth noting that de-oxygenated water wasn't used in the research though, so higher temperature extractions in de-oxygenated water would likely lead to less potency loss.

Hope this adds to the collective knowledge on this thread.


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Edited by Dave Bennett (05/06/26 05:33 PM)

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Dave Bennett] * 3
    #29569391 -

Jeebus, how have I been getting high from making tea like this???!!??!?


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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Dave Bennett] * 4
    #29569508 -

The de-oxygenated water is very interesting. I look forward to trying that out. It looks like a simple enough thing to replicate.

All of the following sounds much more confrontational than I intend it to be. I appreciate the shared information. I just want to offer some counter points.

The results of that study simply do not match up with my experience and that of most of the experienced people on this forum. There is some valuable information in the study, however, not nearly enough to support many of the claims that are made with only that one source as evidence. I have posted my objections to that study several times, in fact in this thread again earlier this week.

As a simple example, the 4% loss per hour at 70c is clearly disproved by my frequently repeated tea dehydration. I dry the aqueous solution at 70c for 48 hours and the potency loss shown in repeated testing is ~5% for the entire 48 hours not 4% per hour as indicated.

While it is commonly excepted that increased temperatures do increase chemical reactions, that may not be the only action at play during the fruit dehydration process. While the cell walls are intact the psilocybin does not react much. In the absence of water it is extremely stable. So while increasing the temperature does increase molecular activity, it also speeds the reduction of free moisture necessary for the degradation of psilocybin. To find which is the more critical factor I propose experimentation.

I won't state unequivocally that drying mushroom material at 70c produces better results than under 40c until I have run some side by side tests myself. I have seen many very adamant arguments on both sides, but have yet to see one set of reliably documented experiments. I intend to remedy that next time the opportunity presents itself. In the mean time, I will continue to do what experience has shown to be effective and share that experience. I prefer not to give advice based solely on what I have read.

It is great to do research and use it as a guideline. However, when the research contradicts the results of repeated experiments, it is time to review and reassess. I am not saying that we should throw out the entire paper because of some flaws, but I would like to see some of the other research that is included in "All the research on drying and potency...". My research and experiments do not show the same results as the conclusions given.

Everyone is welcome to take their advice from whatever sources they find convincing. All I have to offer is a write up of my experiments and results. I just recommend doing some trials of your own before committing to one side or the other. If you only dry at 20c for 10 hours and store in Ziplock bags as they did in that study, I hope you find success, but I have my doubts based on my own experience.


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Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 2
    #29569565 -

If my understanding of that paper and what users on the Advanced Mycology thread are saying about it is sufficient, there's at least three confounding factors at play here:

1. They only tested low-temperature drying (20C) and freezing the mushrooms. The commonly recommended use of dehydrators here is in the range of 70-75C (and even in Figure 1 of the paper that shows degradation of actives, loss appears to be minimal until around 125C, which no experienced cultivator is using or recommending for dehydration)

2. They are powdering the mushrooms before storage, when normally one would store them as whole fruit bodies and only powdering (if at all) immediately before use. While this may be useful for those who make capsules, it doesn't encompass most of the common techniques for drying and storing.

3. They don't seem to have accounted for genetic variance between fruits in the results, yet it's mentioned in section 3.5 where they measured the difference in alkaloids between the cap and stipe:

Quote:
The parametric two-sample unpaired t test with Welch correction in the R program found that the results were not statistically significant, as the p value was 0.3756. This may be due to the large difference between the alkaloid concentrations in the individual fruiting bodies. This means that although the average content of tryptamines in caps is higher than in stipes, due to the SD, where there is high variability between individual fruiting bodies, it cannot be said that this statement applies to all fruiting bodies. The variability of tryptamines in individual fruiting bodies has been described in other published works.52,53



All in all, I'd like to see more experiments that test more variables than what this paper did. I myself am not in a position to run some (a combination of lacking time and funds, mainly) but I look forward to seeing what ReverendMyc and others come up with.


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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 2
    #29569845 -

Auto-Summary
The post addresses perceived flaws in the "Four Analogs" research paper, arguing that many criticisms stem from misunderstandings of the methodology. The author explains that powdering and homogenizing fungal material was necessary for standardization and that storage improvements don't invalidate the experiment's findings. They highlight a key chart showing potency loss at various temperatures, emphasizing that degradation increases linearly with heat. The author also notes that Psilo-Q test results are less accurate than lab methods like HPLC and mass spectrometry. They cite multiple studies confirming that elevated temperatures degrade psilocybin and its analogs, with no research recommending high-temperature drying or extraction. The post concludes by suggesting vacuum drying as a better alternative to traditional methods.

I love discussing research papers so rest assured I won't find any of your replies confrontational.

If I could address some things people claim are flaws in the "Four Analogs" paper I think I can point out a few things that a lot of people seem to have missed in their reading of the paper.

Firstly, powdering and homogenising the dried fungal material isn't a flaw in the method. It's the only way available to standardise the material across the range of different experiments. Obviously, we can improve on their storage methods at home by using sealed jars rather than plastic bags, removing oxygen from the storage jars, storing under an inert gas, storing in complete darkness etc. but that doesn't negate the results of an experiment where temperature and light were the variables.

They also state that they based their methodology on previous research (which I'll list later) that found that drying the fruits in the dark at room temperature resulted in the highest potency which was why they didn't have to do a dehydration experiment. The best drying method was a laboratory standard that had already been established.

Then there's this chart.



What most people who argue for elevated temperature drying miss is what's written under this chart. It actually shows the potency loss that occurs when dried fungal powder was exposed to the various temperatures for just 30 minutes. And they state that "Degradation of tryptamines was observed at 25°C, 50°C, 75°C, 100°C, 125°C, and 150°C for 30 minutes". And we can see from the chart that degradation is linear and increases with temperature up to a point where a catastrophic loss of potency occurs between 125 and 150C.

Oxygen exposure aside, we know that the alkaloids are more stable as solids than in solution and research into the stability of the alkaloids in solution found exactly the same pattern. Potency degrades in a linear fashion temperature/time. So what ever the form the alkaloids are in, solid or solution, they degrade faster when exposed to higher temperatures.

The other thing I'd gently point out is that Psilo-Q test results can't be compared to the accuracy of HPLC testing and Mass spectrometry under laboratory conditions. The manufacturers state a deviation of error of 10% compared to HPLC testing and differences in the temperature of the solution and agitation and development times can all skew the results.

When I said all the published research concurs that elevated temperatures increase potency losses during the drying process and extractions I was stating a fact because I've read all the published research on the subject. Not a single research paper has ever been published that recommends drying or extracting at elevated temperatures. This is a list of the relevant papers with their pertinent quotes that I've used as source material.

Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis.

"Degradation of tryptamines was observed at 25C, 50C, 75C, 100C, 125C, and 150C for 30 min according to the procedure attached in the supporting information."

"The temperature of 25 C was chosen for the extraction as it reached the highest yield of analytes, which is in line with the previously published work."

"To prevent the degradation of fungal tryptamines during sample processing, the most suitable conditions were to dry the fruiting bodies in the dark at room temperature (20-25C)."

Forensic analysis of hallucinogenic mushrooms and khat (Catha edulisForsk) using cation-exchange liquid chromatography

"Drying at room temperature or extraction of fresh fungi obviously led to partial decomposition of the alkaloids so that only about half of the total calculated psilocin content was recovered. Partially, psilocybin seems to be dephosphorylated to psilocin during the procedure. Drying at elevated temperature (60C) is not recommendable since 90% of total calculated psilocin content is decomposed."

Direct Phosphorylation of Psilocin Enables Optimized cGMP Kilogram-Scale Manufacture of Psilocybin.

"With concern for the stability of psilocybin in boiling water for the extended hold times required on large-scale, thermal stability studies on psilocybin in water at 90 °C were per-formed, which demonstrated about 17% hydrolysis of psilocybin back to psilocin after 1 h; at a lower temperature of 70 °C, psilocybin in water was found to hydrolyze to psilocin at a rate of 3–4% per hour."

Optimization through a Box–Behnken Experimental Design of the Microwave-Assisted Extraction of the Psychoactive Compounds in Hallucinogenic Fungi (Psylocibe cubensis).

"Psilocin and psilocybin are known to be thermolabile compounds."

"However, since psilocybin and psilocin are thermolabile compounds, they are prone to suffer thermal degradation when subjected to high temperatures for a prolonged period of time."

"As it can be observed, the optimal temperature obtained concurs with the minimum value studied. Lower temperature levels could not be tested since the extraction equipment used cannot operate under 50 °C."

Magic Mushrooms around the World. A Scientific Journey. Jochen Gartz

"Temperatures over 50°C cause psilocybin to break down into its derivatives. In laboratory settings, mushrooms are usually dried at room temperatures.”

Indole Alkaloids from Psychoactive Mushrooms: Chemical and Pharmacological Potential as Psychotherapeutic Agents.

Table 3. Structure, sources, and extraction methods of some representative mushroom-derived indole alkaloids.

"Dry fungal biomass in the dark and at temperatures below 25 °C."

Extensive Collection of Psychotropic Mushrooms with Determination of Their Tryptamine Alkaloids. 2022.

"The collectors were instructed to dry the mushrooms gently in the air (near a heater or in an air dryer at no more than about 40 °C and promptly sent them to the Forensic Laboratory of Biologically Active Substances in Prague."

Chapter 84 - Assays for Detection of Fungal Hallucinogens Such as Psilocybin and Psilocin.

"Fruit bodies, if dried at temperatures not exceeding 40 °C, maintain high psilocybin content for a long time."

"To avoid psilocybin dephosphorylation, it is recommended not to exceed the temperature of 40 °C during the procedures of drying and extraction."

So the science is clear on the subject.

Have you thought about drying your extracts in a vacuum chamber rather than dehydrating them at elevated temperatures?


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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Dave Bennett] * 1
    #29570024 -

I love a good science project :popcorn:

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