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Time isn't fundamental to reality
    #29306736 -

Humans perceive time linearly, but that doesn't mean reality is actually structured in time. It could be just how we process it.

Earthworms may not be experiencing time, but such a concept doesn't make sense to us. We feel a need to set things a certain way, but there's other ways of organizing information and "being".

The earthworm goes:



Maybe earthworms are the wisest mystics among us?


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Magic is FOR YOU. :mushroom2:

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: solarshroomster]
    #29306820 -

Time travel is fundamental to a wormhole tho I think, so the passage of a worm may metaphorically in a sense be the shortest distance from here to there.

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #29306830 -

Having a sense of time is not a bad thing. It can be very useful in spiritual pursuits. One doesn't neglect to engage spiritual life, imagining having forever to do things.

A worm dies, look on the sidewalk after a rain.

Knowing you too are like a worm and will die, it can be helpful to have the sense of time


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: solarshroomster]
    #29306868 -

I love the pic, and funny to relate the earthworm since there's something in there about time being fundamental to the concept of decay and earthworms to the process.
Seperation seems to be what asks a start and end point of us, again like the earthworm who is erroneously believed to survive independent after such seperation from the host material, we too run out of steam as a single unit, it seems. And linear time does rule that level of our reality.
:persistence:
TLDR: try making your dinner without linear time.
:hereyougo:

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Lithop]
    #29306886 -

i just feel like disconnecting from time unfortunately disconnects you from whats real

unless you figure out how to slow down time

then maybe you win a little bit

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: intergalacticutie] * 1
    #29307066 -

to pick & eat a perfectly mature mushroom, is winning at time
:rollsafe:

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Lithop]
    #29307713 -

Funny enough there are probably times (read as circumstances) in which an absence of the awareness of change is beneficial.

But mostly I think it's useful to understand the connection between what happened before and what happens after. It's a rare ability when you really look around. Not having the ability to connect the dots is far less rare.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Kickle]
    #29307915 -

The sense of time is important to living a good life on earthly terms. I was making the point that I think it could be an illusion. Even if it feels very real to us, it may just be one way of many to simulate reality and not fundamental to reality.

Quote:
Funny enough there are probably times (read as circumstances) in which an absence of the awareness of change is beneficial.



Yes, I think it's good to have a mix of both forms of awareness. I'm more focused though on the metaphysical nature of time. Have you seen time change its way "before"? What do you think is the ultimate nature of time?

Lithop said:
Seperation seems to be what asks a start and end point of us, again like the earthworm who is erroneously believed to survive independent after such seperation from the host material, we too run out of steam as a single unit, it seems. And linear time does rule that level of our reality.


What do you mean "separation seems to be what asks a start and end point of us"? I think this makes a lot of sense. Are you saying, once we go back to wholeness, we lose that "start" and "end" point?


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Magic is FOR YOU. :mushroom2:

Edited by solarshroomster (08/08/25 03:05 PM)

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: solarshroomster] * 2
    #29307960 -

I think time is like everything else - a dependent arising. I have experienced alterations to it, suggesting the experience of time isn't a fixed thing but as conditions change so too does the experience of time. I think most people experience this, whether it be something simple like time appearing to speed up or slow down, or more complex manifestations.

Or said another way, when I experience time, that is real. When I don't experience time, that is  real. Neither one is fixed or "it", but both depend


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: solarshroomster] * 1
    #29308032 -

An Interesting book you might like that argues spacetime is not a fundamental aspect of reality but rather a perceptual interface, like a user interface on a computer, constructed by consciousness.


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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: solarshroomster] * 1
    #29308256 -

^that book sounds pretty good.

solarshroomster said:
What do you mean "separation seems to be what asks a start and end point of us"? I think this makes a lot of sense. Are you saying, once we go back to wholeness, we lose that "start" and "end" point?



You got it, or at least that was the idea.

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #29308362 -

Kickle said:
I think time is like everything else - a dependent arising. I have experienced alterations to it, suggesting the experience of time isn't a fixed thing but as conditions change so too does the experience of time. I think most people experience this, whether it be something simple like time appearing to speed up or slow down, or more complex manifestations.

Or said another way, when I experience time, that is real. When I don't experience time, that is  real. Neither one is fixed or "it", but both depend


This is a really interesting understanding. Can I ask, what kinds of alterations of time have you experienced? There’s a variety of different types. Don’t they absolutely amaze you to experience something so fundamentally different from our typical orientation of reality?!!!

I think it’s absolutely incredible.

cubedryeguy said:
An Interesting book you might like that argues spacetime is not a fundamental aspect of reality but rather a perceptual interface, like a user interface on a computer, constructed by consciousness.




Yes, I’m aware of him, and several NDErs that I talk to have referenced him to me. I try to steer clear from intellectuals though, as I think that may be a big ego trap for me. Anyhow, here’s a good clip for you:





Lithop said:
^that book sounds pretty good.

Quote:
You got it, or at least that was the idea.


That’s very incredible if that’s the case. We are time-created pieces from an eternal sea of existence. How cool is that?!

I think the different ways we can experience time is a pretty big idea and provides new approaches to thinking about life, death, and reality at large. It is a game changer.

This last mushroom session I experienced made me appreciate that. After the experience, I always want to linearize when thinking about it in retrospect and can’t do anything but that anyhow… spiritual amnesia. But when I’m “there”, reality operates very differently. Can I ask you a question: doesn’t this amaze you when you experience time differently on psychedelics? What is your takeaway thoughts from that?


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Magic is FOR YOU. :mushroom2:

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: solarshroomster]
    #29308376 -

The lessons learned from shifts in time are more important than the shifts. Everything changes and time isn't unique in being unfixed. In this way it isn't atypical at all. But it can seem far out until you start seeing that everything is like this.

It's also helpful not to get too caught up on any particular shift IMO. Less you become like the guy who played football in college and at 30 years old still thinks that's really important to focus on.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Kickle]
    #29308401 -

I'm always amazed at folks who don't use alarm clocks to wake up in the morning. They just trust (or program themselves?) to wake up at the appropriate time. Or, a lot of them just tend to be super early risers who know they'll be awake well before they need to be anywhere.


But it is interesting that we humans have substituted the natural alarm clocks such as sun, animal noises, etc. with artificial ones that align with a pre-determined agreement on what "clock time" is... and how societal rhythms move around it. Maybe this is akin to "money" - an artificial abstraction that depends on collective agreement. Pink Floyd, anyone?


Kickle said:
Having a sense of time is not a bad thing. It can be very useful in spiritual pursuits. One doesn't neglect to engage spiritual life, imagining having forever to do things.

A worm dies, look on the sidewalk after a rain.

Knowing you too are like a worm and will die, it can be helpful to have the sense of time


I hear what you're saying. To play devil's advocate though... do you believe that if a person neglects a spiritual life, and then dies, that they have forever lost the chance at a spiritual life? Or is there some kind of reincarnational sense in which we actually do have "forever" to get to the spiritual life.

Not that I would advocate delay... but on the other hand, if we are in a rush to fulfill a concept of a "spiritual life", we might force things and lose our sense of spontaneity.


--------------------
All communication
is pattern
and rhythm

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #29308412 -

Yes, I think one has opportunity always. But the way that opportunity appears isn't static. The opportunity to look at a sunset is perhaps quite far off when you are blind. That doesn't mean it can never happen. But do you want to gamble on how long until that does happen?

Similarly the ability to practice spiritual pursuits is most sensibly practiced when the conditions to do so are already present. Putting it off to the future may be putting it off for an indeterminate period. I wouldn't recommend gambling on how long.

I do very much agree that it isn't wise to then become too tight. But it happens when practicing. I was just learning about a practice on concentration. Too tight leads to restlessness (of mind). Too loose leads to dullness and sleepiness (of mind). And no one can tell you which you are experiencing, you just have to experience it. However, if one is going to err, better to err on the side of restlessness because it's much quicker and easier to identify. Most people don't remember what is happening when they are dull and sleepy.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #29308584 -

"we might force things and lose our sense of spontaneity."

I get the sentiment and that you see the other angles; adding my thought that the delay is of spontaneity, and the requested disciplinary measure becomes the spontaneous vehicle.

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Kickle]
    #29308724 -

Reminds me of Hanuman delaying his own moksha, so that he could continue to serve Ram.

Spiritual masochist?

Kickle said:
However, if one is going to err, better to err on the side of restlessness because it's much quicker and easier to identify. Most people don't remember what is happening when they are dull and sleepy.


I guess that’s why the Zen masters like to whack people over the head with their sticks!


--------------------
All communication
is pattern
and rhythm

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #29309134 -

:lol: They will! I've never been hit with a stick by a Zen teacher though, not physically, unless you call random people in life hitting you with sticks, Zen teachers. And boggled on Hanuman postponing moksha, same as the Bodhisattva, I was searching and came across levels of moksha in Vedanta whatever, that mental forms are 'mithya', real though impermanent, an aspect of said lesser mokshas, finding contradiction in that sources hold at least loving mental forms as real and eternal, if we are to hold creations as mental forms.

But lesser mokshas were aspects of greater or lesser merging with Deity form. How could they call them moksha if impermanent? I think they qualify by saying it's no other life (birth) but with Deity, that much.

Seems kind of moot to me though because once Deity form, the essence is not far. Like said, 1 and 0 serve the same purpose which perhaps is beyond manifest and unmanifest.

Edited by syncro (08/10/25 04:56 PM)

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: syncro]
    #29309137 -

The question popped up and reminded me, is void a manifestation? And then recalled in the search they said a distinction is space in lesser mokshas, I suppose the difference between realm and no-realm.

Well that clears everything up. :nerd:

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Re: Time isn't fundamental to reality [Re: syncro]
    #29309142 -

No-realm is realm. Interesting word real-mmm. Implies real and eternal.

realm(n.)

c. 1300, reaume, "kingdom, domain under a sovereign, royal jurisdiction," from Old French reaume, later realme, variants (in part by influence of Old French reial "regal," from Latin regalis) of roiaume "kingdom."

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