Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Magic Mushrooms Zamnesia
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   North Spore Bulk Substrate

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 |  [ show all ]
CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) * 37
    #29071244 -

Auto-Summary
The author of this post has been experimenting with liquid plant fertilizers as a substitute for manure in mushroom cultivation, specifically to accommodate their immunocompromised status and others' preferences for a more convenient and less smelly option. After a year of trial and error, they've found that a combination of organic fertilizers, such as True Organic 2-2-2 Preplant Starter and Jackpot micronute fertilizer, with a 20ml micronute dose, produces excellent results. They've successfully grown a variety of Panaeolus and Psilocybe species using this method, achieving fruit morphology similar to that of manure-grown mushrooms. The author notes that using a synthetic fertilizer, like Royal Grower, can lead to mold growth, whereas organic fertilizers have a lower contamination rate. They also discuss potential downsides, including slower colonization times for some species and the need for careful dosing due to the ease of over-fertilization.

Howdy Shroomerities. I suppose it's time to make this journal post public. Sorry for the lag, life has been lifing. Over the last year or so, I've been experimenting with liquid plant fertilizers as a substitute for manure. Now Mojave, mushrooms aren't plants. And manure is damn near free. So why even bother? Well, the reason doesn't really matter. I'm immunocompromised & handling manure isn't within my risk tolerance. Some have partners that don't appreciate having poo in the kitchen. Some just don't like having shit under their nails. Most importantly, this shit is just mad convenient.

I initially intended for this thread to open up into a larger discussion on alternatives to manure. Being that I took forever to put this up, discussion is well under way in the lovely Tree Frog's Manure is Shitty thread. So here's the quick & dirty. Although my original goal was to simply grow some pans, I've come to see this project as great way to increase the accessibility of species that benefit from nutritious substrates.

TL;DR: Organic good. 7-10ml NPK good. 20ml micronute great. Use together. Heat treatment isn't necessary, but clean spawn absolutely is.
--------------------------------------------
Here's what I've been using over the past year.
Royal Grower
True Organic 2-2-2 Preplant Starter
Jackpot micronute fertilizer

And here's how I've been using it. I've been bent on bucket tek for the sake of convenience. I think the best way to put these species on the map is by making them easier to cultivate. I personally do not find pasteurization intimidating, but plenty of folks do. So, while I recognize that proper pasteurization or sterilization would make this journey easier, I'm set on skipping them.


So, let's see some results. I've grown a fair spread of species on ferts. Here are some examples. I'll be sure to list the dose & amount of spawn used.

Panaeolus on 7ml Royal Grower, 20ml Jackpot. 1:2-1:3 ratio
Pan. Cyan TTBVI, MiBR

Pan. Cambo Jamaica, Komodo

Pan. Olivaceus


Ps. Subtropicalis HVC on 7ml Royal Grower, 20ml Jackpot. 1:3 ratio.

Here's a side-by-side grow. CV+ on the left, CV on the right.


Ps. Zapotecorum Talpa #2 on 7ml Royal Grower, 20 ml Jackpot. 1:3 ratio.


Ps. Mexicana Vera Cruz on 7ml Royal Grower, 20ml Jackpot, various ratios
This was the first one that explicitly did not like RG CV+. MS culture, F1-F2 from wild. CV+ on the left, CV on the right. Notice the difference in fruit morphology. Same exact conditions, CV+ fruited about a week before CV.



Now, does it matter which NPK you choose to use? Synthetic or organic? My answer is that I haven't tried them all, but I noticed enough of a difference going organic that I think it's worth it to just start there. My contamination rate dropped from 70-80% to 30% then again to 5%. Why the 30% stall? Well, I didn't know that I had a PC issue. Turns out I was doing the majority of the work here with intermittently bacterial spawn. I figured it out around April 2025. Replacing my PC got me to 5%. Now, Royal Grower will spontaneously mold out. Don't use it. However I'm confident that contamination on true organic is a spawn/culture issue.

Pan. Cyan Burringbar (thanks 3am!) on 30ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:4-1:5 ratio


Panaeolus on 20ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:4-1:5 ratio
Pan Cyan Burringbar

Pan Olivaceus


As this was the first variety I ran on both NPKs, this grow let me know that organic ferts could lead to fruit morphology that more closely resembles fruits grown on manure. The RG grow stumped me, as I couldn't find pictures that resembled what I ended up growing. I used Kirkeng's Olivaceus grow for reference.


Ps. Subtropicalis HVC on 20ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:3 ratio


Ps. Zapotecorum Talpa #2 on 20ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:3 ratio


----------------
06/2025 Update


Ps. Mexicana Chicon Nindo on 20ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:3 ratio


Ps. Mexicana Vera Cruz on 20ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:2 ratio


Ps. Zapotecorum Talpa #2 on 13ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:3 ratio


Ps. Zapotecorum Holy Grail on 10ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:3 ratio


Ps. Tampanensis Beulah on 10ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:3 ratio


Pan. Cambo Sandoz on 10ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:4 ratio


Pan. Tropicalis on 10ml True Organic, 20ml Jackpot. 1:4 ratio


---------------------------------
Now for the downsides. As mentioned, this will put wonky spawn under a microscope. I think it has something to do with the lack of beneficial microbes & the ease of accessibility inherent to liquid fertilizers. The organisms at play have to work harder to extract nutrients out of compost/manure/straw/etc.

Multiple people have reported slower colonization times (compared to manure) with Panaeolus species. This aligns with my experience. Species from sect. Zapotecorum & Mexicanae fruited faster than my coir only controls. Ps. Mexicana doesn't seem to really enjoy CV+ in any way I've gone about it. Very easy to overdo it.

Leftover CV+ has a short shelf-life. Make as much as you'll use at once, and heat treat any leftovers before use.

True Organic smells like concentrated soy sauce. I think it's better than manure but you might not like it :lol:

That's about all I've got. If you've tried this out & feel I've missed something, let me know!

-MM

Edited by MojaveMyc (06/01/25 02:06 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: MojaveMyc] * 2
    #29235840 -

:camping:


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: tree frog] * 2
    #29235850 -


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: the_chosen_one] * 1
    #29236021 -

Awesome post!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: fahtster]
    #29236466 -

:asianofapproval:


--------------------
The Hitchhikers Guide to the Shroomery
:sporedrop:L.A.G.M. 2025:sporedrop:
Tico


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: Axman]
    #29241145 -

:noargument:


--------------------
This hobby has taught me many things.
Most of those things are patience.

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery
The Official Shroomery Cultivation Museum
CakeWars
III

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: MojaveMyc]
    #29248053 -

Love the write-up, thanks for sharing! I just got some Pan spores started on agar and have been reading up on ways to avoid le hpoo and this has been a great find :bow2:. I was also thinking about adding NPK to BRF pucks (BRF+ or PF+) so I can test pans at small scale since BabaYaga says having the right culture is key.

You mention the specific True Organic/Jackpot volumes and a spawn ratio e.g. 20mL/20mL/1:3

But how much CV+ are you preping? Would you mind sharing a recipe? e.g. 650g coir + Xg verm + 20mL True Organic + 20mL Jackpot ~= 13 qt prepped CV+

lol sorry for asking for all the specifics I can also play around with it and try to figure it out myself.

P.S. I think I found your write up on discord about making gummies from last year so thanks for that, they turned out great! Nice to finally run into you on here too :biggrin:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: MojaveMyc]
    #29252120 -

Thanks for this!  One can never have too many tools in their toolbox.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: kingboomer]
    #29252141 -

Question:

I'm assuming you're using the standard bucket Tek (650g coir/2qt verm) for your measurements?  Or is that dose per quart of CV?  Reason I ask is I use Stipes recipe for CV and I want to make sure I get the dose for the nutes and minerals right.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: kingboomer] * 3
    #29255807 -

@sage, I’m not sure exactly how much coir I end up with, maybe 10-12 qts. It’ll be a few weeks before I prep more sub, but I’ll be sure to pay attention next time.

@kingboomer, you got it standard bucket tek. The dose of 10/20ml is for the entire batch of sub. Per brick of coir/whatever amount of water you use to hydrate a round of substrate


--------------------
CV+

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: MojaveMyc]
    #29255879 -

MojaveMyc said:
@sage, I’m not sure exactly how much coir I end up with, maybe 10-12 qts. It’ll be a few weeks before I prep more sub, but I’ll be sure to pay attention next time.

@kingboomer, you got it standard bucket tek. The dose of 10/20ml is for the entire batch of sub. Per brick of coir/whatever amount of water you use to hydrate a round of substrate



Many thanks man.  I'll use those numbers and scale it to what I need, I'm planning on smaller batches to start.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: kingboomer]
    #29257740 -

Thank you for sharing!! - This is exactly what I needed to get started on pans without using poo.

:awedance:


--------------------
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Shroomery - BeefSupremeJr
A Love Letter to New Growers - Smellyhobbit

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: nocap] * 3
    #29258501 -

Had some coir prepped on the dry side and some sus spawn.  Decided to do my ferts in a sprayer.

I sprayed the coir at spawn.  Gave it a top layer and sprayed it some more.  I'll use the sprayer to water my casings and see what happens.

(Pan Cambo)


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: tree frog]
    #29258645 -

Really digging the sprayer idea too!  - Wouldn’t need a second coir bucket separate from cubes.

Did you mix the nutes a bit stronger or maybe empty the sprayer of only a small volume?  Or is the quantity of nutrients required a bit more nebulous? An inexact range of sorts… (some but not too much)


--------------------
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Shroomery - BeefSupremeJr
A Love Letter to New Growers - Smellyhobbit

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: nocap] * 1
    #29259280 -

I used the same ratios as Mojave. So yeah it is quite a bit underdosed but it was a sus jar so I used a high spawn ratio and an just playing around a little bit.

Mostly my thought is that spraying the casings with it might be beneficial.  I'm about to prep some phase 2 and coir, because I haven't found anything comparable yet for fruit body health and I have a bunch to go through.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: tree frog]
    #29259704 -

tree frog said:
I used the same ratios as Mojave. So yeah it is quite a bit underdosed but it was a sus jar so I used a high spawn ratio and an just playing around a little bit.

Mostly my thought is that spraying the casings with it might be beneficial.  I'm about to prep some phase 2 and coir, because I haven't found anything comparable yet for fruit body health and I have a bunch to go through.


Thanks for the reply!  I enjoy reading your posts and learn a lot from your shared experiences.


--------------------
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Shroomery - BeefSupremeJr
A Love Letter to New Growers - Smellyhobbit

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: nocap]
    #29260062 -

nocap said:
Thank you for sharing!! - This is exactly what I needed to get started on pans without using poo.

:awedance:


Thanks for reading! I hope it works out for you. I’ll be keen to see how it goes!

tree frog said:
Had some coir prepped on the dry side and some sus spawn.  Decided to do my ferts in a sprayer.

I sprayed the coir at spawn.  Gave it a top layer and sprayed it some more.  I'll use the sprayer to water my casings and see what happens.

(Pan Cambo)


Very interesting! I’m intrigued 👀👀 keep me posted fam!

I got overwhelmed with life stuff so I won’t be actively fruiting anything for the next month or so. My last run was Semperviva & tamp Beulah on TO tomato fertilizer (red bottle), similar ratios but mostly water-soluble N vs preplant (blue bottle) which is mostly insoluble N. I let them get crispy before snapping full maturity pics, but I didn’t notice much of a difference with either species. Fruits were a smidge smaller & tamps were 50/50 on contam. Semp tub began to mold around sporulation. At this point I’m scraping 2-3 flushes out of my subs dosed with preplant, so while 3 tubs don’t really say a lot, death at flush 1 is whispering a bit



I’ll do another round when I can give them proper attention, but I think this one might be better suited for my plants.


--------------------
CV+

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: MojaveMyc]
    #29260230 -

Just for clarity, you are seeing more contamination with the water soluble nitrogen right?

Yeah just for some context, I have read quite a bit about nitrogen supplementation in button mushroom growing. And they sometimes use slow release nitrogen to get healthier later flushes. And they also have done quite a few studies involving adding nitrogen to the casing layer in some form.

Misting liquid ferts on seems easiest with the casing.  Well, higher shelf stability anyway.  Rather than adding worm castings or compost and worrying about potential mold.

Sus jar seems to be colonizing.  Maybe it just bruised on the shake :shrug:  But my grain prep has been sus lately, and I know I lost one jar out of that run at least.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (06/24/25 12:27 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: tree frog]
    #29264873 -

:takingnotes:
Outstanding information! I'll be using this in the very near future.


--------------------
Pastywhyte’s Ez dialed monotubs
My Miraculix Potency Test Results
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery
My Museum
REV'S Tested: Dehydration temperature vs potency





Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: CV+ (Coir, Verm + Liquid Plant Fertilizers) [Re: Bigworm] * 2
    #29265194 -

Sus jar knotted in the nutrient sprayed coir so I sprayed more and cased it, and then sprayed the casing.



May have some trich too but it was a sus jar so, might not be an issue with spraying.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   North Spore Bulk Substrate

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* coco coir +verm or just verm coming_up_roses 3,146 8 03/24/03 04:13 PM
by Alien
* poo,coir/verm or a 1/3 of each Anonymous 2,164 7 11/06/03 03:15 AM
by Anonymous
* verm or coir/verm? herby 1,317 7 10/03/04 10:42 PM
by SubGen1us
* coir/verm tek Che_Night_Soil 3,606 6 03/15/03 09:34 AM
by shirley knott
* coir/verm proportions newbie420 1,465 3 06/16/04 12:03 AM
by alpiner
* add lime to 70/30 coir verm? newbie420 1,461 7 07/07/04 01:43 PM
by Magash
* coco coir/verm shelf life seethe303 1,332 5 09/15/04 05:24 PM
by seethe303
* question about sterilising coir/verm Chibboleth 858 4 04/14/04 10:44 AM
by Hanky

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: DERRAYLD, Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, the_chosen_one, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, hamloaf, cronicr, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
8,579 topic views. 12 members, 847 guests and 154 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.036 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 16 queries.