Auto-SummaryThe post discusses a study comparing the effects of iso-LSA and LSA from morning glory seeds. Iso-LSA is found to be better than LSA, as it induces a "fair and psychedelic" effect, while LSA is toxic and induces a "flu-like" condition. The study also found that penniclavine, an ergot toxin, is the predominant alkaloid in the seeds, and ergonovine, a psychedelic compound, is present in varying amounts. The post speculates that the quality of the experience may depend on the seed batch's LSA/penniclavine and ergonovine ratios, suggesting that higher ergonovine and lower LSA/clavine ratios might be more desirable. The author encourages further research into this subject.
Were the bad experience from chewing up the seeds and the good ones from CWEs, perhaps?
The main point of the post is that iso-LSA may actually be better than LSA — that's an understatement because the results of the study showed that LSA was quite toxic, inducing a "flu-like" condition, while the effects of iso-LSA were fair and psychedelic.[1] Furthermore, one study found penniclavine to be the predominant alkaloid in the seeds,[2] and clavines are known to be ergot toxins.[3] Furthermore, the same study found ~50 mcg of ergonovine per gram in one batch of seeds and ~90 mcg/g in another. Ergonovine is lysergic acid hydroxymethylethylamide and, as its title suggests, is known to be psychedelic, although there's reason to believe that it may be a culprit for the vasoconstriction[4] and it's only present in ~⅙ to ~⅓ the amt. of LSA (LSA is over 250 mcg/g) and it doesn't appear to be especially potent.[5]
So, this leaves us to speculate: Could it be that the bad experiences involve seed batches that contain higher amts. of LSA and/or penniclavine, while the good ones are iso-LSA predominant? Or is a high ergonovine and low LSA/clavine ratio what is more desirable? Or is ergonovine also an undesirable (see reference 4)?
It would be nice if people, especially researchers, would give this subject serious attention. It seems to be worth it...
In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I went to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds. To begin, I extracted several kilos of seeds using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the alternating presence of aqueous solutions of ammonia and tartaric acid.
After a couple days' work, I obtained a nearly colorless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence typical of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known — and by then I had already taken high dose LSD several times as well as a few other notorious psychedelic agents.
Peter Webster. Carl P. Ruck, Peter Webster - The Mythology and Chemistry of the Eleusinian Mysteries (Basel, Switzerland, 2006) (1:08:45). @gaiamedia, Oct 25, 2013
Im actually pretty suprised LSA doesnt get more attention as it is a truely great substance. I can actually admitt I like it evenly with LSD. All you hear about is people eating Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds or Morning glories or sometimes Ololiuhqui. Some people even make crude alcohol extractions. I made a purified extract, with staggering results.
Kash, 3/5/2012, https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=326413
When I discovered LSD, it was believed it was a product of laboratory. And then we discovered that this compound had existed already for thousands of years in the plant kingdom...not exactly LSD, but practically.
Albert Hofmann. Hofmann's Potion (documentary). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpSLjdPiSH8&start=293 (4:53)
1. "With d-lysergic-acid-amide the clinical picture was one of intoxication with strong autonomic side-effects; with d-iso-lysergic-acid-amide euphoria synesthesia and altered time experience were observed."
Die psychische Wirkung der mexikanischen Droge „Ololiuqui“ am Menschen. Heim, E., Heimann, H. & Lukács, G. Psychopharmacologia 13, 35–48 (1968). DOI: 10.1007/BF00401617 (Abstract)
2. Identification and determination of ergot alkaloids in Morning Glory cultivars. Nowak J, Woźniakiewicz M, Klepacki P, Sowa A, Kościelniak P. 2016. Anal Bioanal Chem. 408(12):3093-102. doi: 10.1007/s00216-016-9322-5
Some of the data needs to be extrapolated, which was kindly done by a redditor: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28954668
3. Clavines are thought to contribute substantially to convulsive ergotism, while the ergopeptines are known to produce similar symptoms and also to cause gangrenous ergotism [31,101]. (4.2 Toxicity, p. 908)
31. Schardl CL, Panaccione DG, Tudzynski P (2006) Ergot alkaloids-biology and molecular biology. Alkaloids Chem Biol 63:45–86
101. Eadie MJ (2003) Convulsive ergotism: epidemics of the serotonin syndrome? Lancet Neurol 2:429–434
Ergot Alkaloids: Chemistry, Biosynthesis, Bioactivity, and Methods of Analysis. Arroyo-Manzanares, N., Gámiz-Gracia, L., García-Campaña, A.M., Diana Di Mavungu, J., De Saeger, S. (2017). In: Mérillon, JM., Ramawat, K. (eds) Fungal Metabolites. Reference Series in Phytochemistry. Springer, Cham. DOI: 10.1007/978-3-319-25001-4_1
4. "Walking in this dreamy state was difficult due to leg cramps and slight incoordination. There was always a great desire to lie supine."
"The mild entheogenic effects of ergonovine are similar to those of LSD. However, in dramatic contrast to LSD, the somatic effects of ergonovine greatly overshadow its psychic effects, so much so that we had no wish to ingest more than 10.0 mg,"
Entheogenic Effects of Ergonovine. Jeremy Bigwood, Jonathan Ott, Catherine Thompson, Patricia Neely. The Journal of Psychedelic Drugs, vol. 11(1-2), Jan-Jun, 1979
5. "Our experiments corroborate Hofmann's report that ergonovine possesses entheogenic properties. We found the active dose to lie between 5.0 and 10.0 mg, peroral. It is interesting to note that Hofmann experienced distinct entheogenic effects at 2.0 mg, while Wasson and Ruck did not. Similarly, J.B. experienced distinct entheogenic effects at 3.0 mg, whereas J.O. and P.N. did not. This underscores the importance of metabolic individuality in the uptake and metabolism of mind-altering drugs." (Same source as above)
Edited by s240779 (09/21/24 08:32 PM)
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