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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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B+ albino mutation? * 1
    #28937918 -

My supposed B+ produced a dense pinset of albino phenos. It's my first grow from this print so I'm curious whether I'm indeed witnessing an albino B+ mutation or if someone here is able to identify the mislabeled strain? I don't think it's AA+ since it seems to be true albino (white gills, no pigmentation whatsoever) but it also lacks the distinctive cap of TAT.

Before anyone asks, I obviously did clone it.





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Project Lovi - A somewhat serious attempt at improving ps. cubensis genetics
APE x Malabar - a  W I D E  hybrid

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali]
    #28937927 -

If the original print was normally pigmented, you found an albino version of it.  B+ is known to have alot of variability in the phenotypes, so it's not absurd to get an albino from it or super dark fruits.  If you like the fruits, take swabs from them and try to stabilize the albino trait through subsequent generations.

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: PBJ710]
    #28937948 -

Good point, the original print was indeed pigmented. I don't currently have sterile swabs at hand so I tried to make prints of it. However, it's either really hard to see the albino spores on foil or it didn't drop them at all. At least the clone seems to be going strong so I can at least try again in the future. :ohwell:


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Project Lovi - A somewhat serious attempt at improving ps. cubensis genetics
APE x Malabar - a  W I D E  hybrid

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali] * 1
    #28945356 -

Update: second flush seemed to produce these alien snake fruits some of which with stipes over 20cm (8') long (European 330ml coke can for scale). All albino still.




Took some swabs of these bad bois, inoculating F1 this weekend once I have the time to prep a fresh round of agar plates.


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Project Lovi - A somewhat serious attempt at improving ps. cubensis genetics
APE x Malabar - a  W I D E  hybrid

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali] * 1
    #28945366 -

That pinset is wild! I'm guessing some mad mutation.


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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: HappinessStan]
    #28945423 -

This has been happening A LOT lately for vendor spores. My B+ vendor spores also unexpectedly were albino a few weeks back.


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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: QuantumZ00]
    #28945462 -

Very interesting. Do you have any idea of why would that be? Edit: removed spore source

Are you planning to try to stabilize the mutation? I'm already thinking of fun crossing experiments, maybe with APE. Albino Tidal Wave, perhaps? :cool:


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Project Lovi - A somewhat serious attempt at improving ps. cubensis genetics
APE x Malabar - a  W I D E  hybrid

Edited by muumilleniaali (09/14/24 05:32 AM)

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali]
    #28945503 -

muumilleniaali said:
My supposed B+ produced a dense pinset of albino phenos. It's my first grow from this print so I'm curious whether I'm indeed witnessing an albino B+ mutation or if someone here is able to identify the mislabeled strain? I don't think it's AA+ since it seems to be true albino (white gills, no pigmentation whatsoever) but it also lacks the distinctive cap of TAT.

Before anyone asks, I obviously did clone it.






Not 100% confident here, but I believe the general
way is that there is the true "pigmentless" phenos, and they are "true" albinoes. This looks like it has some colour to it?

Then again some people talk about "pseudo" albinoes
where perhaps there is a single color apart from white
and to the degree it is one, etc etc

Its a matter of whether "full albinism" is the only type of appereance one should call albino


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Willpower is the one true virtue


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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali]
    #28945616 -

That pinset is insane!


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Recognizing Contamination in Grain Jars - A Visual Notebook
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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: DV8DUG]
    #28945664 -

Super cool! Can you educate me a bit on how to clone 2 varieties together? I've read the HHG and don't fully grasp how to cross varieties and if you can cross any variety with any variety etc.

I'm still learning and it'd be helpful to me


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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28945682 -

Mislabeled spores is common. Still pretty. Op remove where you got your spores.


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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: vicepope]
    #28948805 -

smalltalk_canceled said:
Not 100% confident here, but I believe the general
way is that there is the true "pigmentless" phenos, and they are "true" albinoes. This looks like it has some colour to it?

Then again some people talk about "pseudo" albinoes
where perhaps there is a single color apart from white
and to the degree it is one, etc etc

Its a matter of whether "full albinism" is the only type of appereance one should call albino


If you're talking about the coloration on bases of the split stipes, it's most likely just some browning that has been migrated from the coir. I also cranked the saturation of that pic up to 11.

Seriously_trippin said:
Super cool! Can you educate me a bit on how to clone 2 varieties together? I've read the HHG and don't fully grasp how to cross varieties and if you can cross any variety with any variety etc.

I'm still learning and it'd be helpful to me


You'd need to isolate a monokaryotic mycelium culture from each strain and get them mate with each other to form dikaryotic mycelium. All mushroom producing mycelium is dikaryotic and it's usually formed very early in MS inoculation due to spores being very close to each other. So typically you'd try to isolate a single spore germination site in order to obtain monokaryons(I've seen some potential methods for dedikaryotication but they looked very resource intensive). My favourite method is serial dilutions. It's a bit more hassle than Edward Grand's grab & drag method but gives you more control and IME better results. You can cross any cubensis strains as long as your monokaryons are compatible. Cubensis has tetrapolar mating system, meaning that there are two different loci in the genome both of which need to have different alleles in order for the monokaryons to successfully combine into a dikaryon. So usually it's beneficial to have several monos from each variety you'd like to cross. Hope this helps.

vicepope said:
Mislabeled spores is common. Still pretty. Op remove where you got your spores.


Yeah I was wondering that too but like I mentioned in the original post, the phenos don't seem to match with AA+ or TAT. That being said, I don't consider myself experienced enough to make a conclusive call. Do you have an idea what the strain might be in case it's mislabeled? The spores were pigmented and other grows from the print seem to produce "regular" phenos.

vicepope said:
Op remove where you got your spores.


Oops sorry, done.


--------------------
Project Lovi - A somewhat serious attempt at improving ps. cubensis genetics
APE x Malabar - a  W I D E  hybrid

Edited by muumilleniaali (09/16/24 06:42 PM)

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali]
    #28950153 -

wont a true albino have albino underside of the cap too?


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Willpower is the one true virtue


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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: smalltalk_canceled] * 1
    #28955425 -

smalltalk_canceled said:
wont a true albino have albino underside of the cap too?


Correct. The first flush didn't have any coloration on gills whatsoever but the second one did a bit(it's more pronounced in the image than IRL). But whether that's due to overmaturity or different genetics between the two, I have no idea. I've seen even my APEs to gain a bit of coloration on gills if I let them go overmature. Furthermore, these produce transparent spores. I don't know if that's possible for leucistic (pseudo-albino) variants.

Anyway, F2 will tell more. I have a clean MS inoculated on agar, spawning it to grain tomorrow.


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Project Lovi - A somewhat serious attempt at improving ps. cubensis genetics
APE x Malabar - a  W I D E  hybrid

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali] * 4
    #29040723 -

Sorry about the delay, I had to shelf this for a while because of million other projects. Anyway, here's the F2 update:

Seems that the spores I swabbed from the first flush resulted into very similar looking albinos (no coloration on gills). It's a T0 MS tub made with LI, so maximum variation should be expressed. I'd conclude that apparently I really do have a mutation with stable enough genetics to consistently produce albinos from generation to generation.



These also seem to be somewhat stronger than your average GT. Can't wait to start breeding these.


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Project Lovi - A somewhat serious attempt at improving ps. cubensis genetics
APE x Malabar - a  W I D E  hybrid

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali] * 1
    #29040927 -

Hey, I've had this exact same thing happen in 2011. In a normally colored B+ grow from my own spores. A few popped up and I cloned the largest one. F1 was leucistic / albino. Cloned from that and they behaved like true albinos.
At the time I understood it happend every now and then with B+




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Fight law and order


Species grown so far

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: muumilleniaali]
    #29041148 -

muumilleniaali said:
Sorry about the delay, I had to shelf this for a while because of million other projects. Anyway, here's the F2 update:

Seems that the spores I swabbed from the first flush resulted into very similar looking albinos (no coloration on gills). It's a T0 MS tub made with LI, so maximum variation should be expressed. I'd conclude that apparently I really do have a mutation with stable enough genetics to consistently produce albinos from generation to generation.



These also seem to be somewhat stronger than your average GT. Can't wait to start breeding these.



Those look great. Clone that and try and stabilize it.



--------------------
Hitchhikers Guide to the Shroomery





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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: FuzzyFoot]
    #29041249 -

Yes, get it stable and then if you can still get some spores please offer it in the marketplace.  😉


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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: Lilgrower]
    #29041362 -

"stability is a jackalope."

-Nichrome


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"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: B+ albino mutation? [Re: Lilgrower]
    #29066940 -

Churpee Choozle said:
Hey, I've had this exact same thing happen in 2011. In a normally colored B+ grow from my own spores. A few popped up and I cloned the largest one. F1 was leucistic / albino. Cloned from that and they behaved like true albinos.
At the time I understood it happend every now and then with B+





Very interesting, those are familiar looking phenos indeed! Did you end up collecting spores from the albino fruits?

FuzzyFoot said:
Those look great. Clone that and try and stabilize it.




Cloning won't do anything in terms of stabilization. It's a good technique for isolating genetics from preferred phenotypes but for stabilization one needs to grow multiple generations through spores. That being said, this was a multispore grow from a T0 plate covered with a full swabful of spores, so there should be plenty of different strains present. Seeing that already in F2 there was no fruits that had been reverted back to expressing pigmentation, I'm fairly confident that the genetics are stable enough to consistently produce albinos. Of course I can't claim to have achieved stability until around F6-F7, but for the time being I actually prefer preserving as much of the genetic variability as possible. I will probably continue with stabilization later on.

Lilgrower said:
Yes, get it stable and then if you can still get some spores please offer it in the marketplace.  😉


Of course, eventually. Currently I have only a limited amount of swabs from the F2 and I'll probably be using most of them for cross-breeding experiments. I've already isolated a bunch of monokaryons and have several cross plates set up. Stay tuned. :wink:

(And of course I'm yet to earn access to the marketplace, I need to be more active here)


--------------------
Project Lovi - A somewhat serious attempt at improving ps. cubensis genetics
APE x Malabar - a  W I D E  hybrid

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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