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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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But... but... but.... it's all about the oil!
    #2806773 - 06/18/04 08:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Who?s Afraid of the U.S.A.
Rich Tucker (archive)


June 18, 2004 | Print | Send


A national political campaign allows a country to focus its attention on critical matters, make decisions about the future and express what?s important. No doubt our presidential election someday will include serious discussions about Iraq, Medicare, the Patriot Act and more.

Meanwhile, a national campaign is underway in Canada. And it puts the lie to the oft-stated claim that the United States is feared internationally.

NBC News White House correspondent David Gregory hauled out this sad charge during President Bush?s recent visit to Europe. ?In much of the world, people fear the United States,? Gregory claimed, ?but, particularly after the abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison, [they] appear to have lost faith in its ideals.?

Well, that may be what people in other countries say, but it?s not what they believe. If Gregory were correct, we?d see fear manifested in Canada. After all, they?re our immediate neighbor and would be on the front lines if the U.S. started to throw its weight around.

Think of it this way: Once, Greece and Rome possessed great military power. Both invaded their neighbors. When the Ottoman Empire had great military power in the 1500s, it invaded its neighbors. When France had great military power in the 1800s, it invaded its neighbors. The Soviet Union held half of Europe for generations -- because it could.

But we have great power, and we?re benevolent. If we decided to, we could conquer the entire planet. Even if all the militaries of all the world combined, we?d still defeat them. Easily.

We?d shoot down every enemy plane, sink every enemy ship, and kill as many enemy soldiers as necessary before they all surrendered. And it?s not just atomic weapons. We could win, and would win, with only conventional weapons.

This sort of restraint is new. It?s never existed before, and, based on history, it should inspire fear around the world. But it doesn?t. Canada?s the proof.

Canadians will choose a new government on June 28. One key issue is defense spending. The governing Liberal party wants to add some 5,000 troops to Canada?s undermanned force, still leaving the country with only about 60,000 people in uniform.

The more hawkish Conservative party has stirred controversy, because it wants to bring Canada?s troop levels up to 80,000. That would cost about $4.8 billion Canadian dollars over four years. Even this small amount is considered controversial, although a study by Queen?s University has warned that if Canadians don?t vastly increase spending, they?ll have virtually no military within 15 years.

By contrast, the U.S. has more than 1.4 million people on active duty and plans to spend more than $400 billion on defense just next year.

Now, some will wonder why we would ever want to invade Canada. Well, that?s simple. After all, leftists assure us that the war in Iraq was all about oil. Well, if we were willing to send our boys halfway around the world to fight -- and die -- for oil, surely we?d be willing to send them to much a safer, northern clime.

Canada is already the largest supplier of oil to the U.S. Plus, tar-sand deposits in Alberta contain an estimated 1.6 trillion barrels of oil. Surely Halliburton would love to get its greedy hands on that. It?s there, with nothing but an undefended 4,000-mile border between it and us.

And if the entire Canadian military geared up to stop us, how long could they hold out? Half a day? Half an hour? Half a minute? It surely would be a suicide mission.

Simply put, if Canadians feared us, they?d be ramping up military spending. Similarly, if the French feared us, they wouldn?t block all of our president?s plans for Iraq. If the Germans feared us, their prime minister wouldn?t run for -- and win -- re-election by bashing the U.S.

In fact, the entire Western world knows it can scrimp on defense, because we will defend them. And we will never invade or conquer them.

We?re unique. We?re special. We?re the great hope of mankind. That?s why terrorists seek to destroy us -- because they fear and detest our freedoms and realize those freedoms eventually will be spread everywhere, because freedom is the only idea that really works. Their idea, a Muslim caliphate, has already been tried and has already failed.

There?s no historical precedent for the idea of the United States. But when our great grandchildren sit down to write history, our ideas will seem so elemental they?ll say, ?Why didn?t people think of that before?? And they?ll realize David Gregory got it exactly backward. People don?t fear the U.S. They depend on us for political and moral guidance.



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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2807340 - 06/18/04 11:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2807365 - 06/19/04 12:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

typical American arrogance in that article.

No, America could not conquer the world. What retard could actually believe that? People fight wars, not politicians. It's been said that one day there'll be a war that no one shows up to fight. I would venture to say that America VS the world would be that war. Assuming that everyone somehow did go to fight ( impossible ), then they still would have no chance.

And it's right -- citizens of the world don't fear the US - they hate it and will assimilate as much of it as they can. When the Egyptians were first conquered, it was because they were technologically backward. After staying conquered a few years, they learned how to use what defeated them, and became a huge power. The world may be behind America on average, but it would not stay that way.


As for the oil, taking on Canada would mean America vs the World.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2807839 - 06/19/04 01:52 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

heh, they are having trouble occupying urban areas of two small countries... Stretched thin, can't pay for soldiers airline tickets or body armor, keeping soldiers longer than was first said, possibility of the draft being reinstated, etc ad nauseum. ...But they could beat the whole world!

6 billion vs. 250 million, priceless.

We are no spartans. Hell half the populace would probably quickly and readily jump off this sinking ship if that were to occur.

Quote:

We?d shoot down every enemy plane, sink every enemy ship, and kill as many enemy soldiers as necessary before they all surrendered. And it?s not just atomic weapons. We could win, and would win, with only conventional weapons.




And I'm sure this is what your average townhall.com fan loves to read. Its like a leftist has infiltrated the heritage foundation and townhall.com and is writing ridiculously stupid editorials to have the lower order "conservatives" disseminate it across the internet, discrediting the movement as a whole. I'm sure there are quite a few intelligent conservatives(though I don't think intelligence and partisanship are common bedfellows) that are letting out a "D'Oh!" after reading this.


The oil argument is also extremely ridiculous, though with other stuff this guy has said, I would not expect him to know a whole lot about oil economics. Its very difficult and expensive to extract oil from tar sands. Tar sand is a mixture of clay, sand, water, and bitumen. The bitumen needs to be collected from the rest of the mix and then refined into crude oil. Not exactly cheaper and easier than pumping liquid crude from a huge well.

Canada pumps out 750,000 barrels per day. Impressive eh? Iraq during sanctions pumped, on average, about 1.5 million per day. Before they were at 3.7 million per day. With some money it is said they could reach 5 million a day. Saudi Arabia does around 10 million a day.(Though Saud is already under the umbrella) Sure makes Canada's 750 thousand per day seem appetizing eh? By the way, 750,000 bbl/d is about 3.5 percent of US oil consumption.

Iraq also happened to be the only OPEC member that went against the grain and started trading oil in Euro's. This was more dangerous to the US than Iraq's entire arsenal of WMD's...(hehe, even the ones Bush and Co. would have you believe exist) Most of the US' economic might comes from the US dollar being the De Facto reserve currency of the world. Since '71 if you wanted oil you needed US dollars to pay for it. And everyone needs oil. That meant that everyone needed dollars, and if everyone has dollars, the dollar becomes the standard trade currency. This gave the US a free ride - it(moreso the US central bank) creates the dollars fiat. Basically it wrote checks for everything it wanted to buy and didn't have to worry about them being cashed, everyone else was using the actual checks as currency.

But in 2000, Iraq started selling oil in Euro's. It was shrugged off because due to the strength of the Euro relative to the dollar, Saddam took a loss. But that quickly changed. From 2000 to the invasion, you could buy oil in Euro's, the utter dependence on dollars had been broken, Euro's could now viably be held in reserve. Iran was also strongly considering the switch, now probably having second thoughts. When it does happen, the euro replacing or usurping part or all of the dollars reserve status, the value of the dollar will fall, and that pesky debt we hear so much about but doesn't seem to mean anything will catch up with us. Mmmm! Depression!

Quote:

In fact, the entire Western world knows it can scrimp on defense, because we will defend them. And we will never invade or conquer them.




Defend them from who? Martians? It knows we will never invade or conquer them because we can't even conquer a small 3rd world country.

Quote:

We?re unique. We?re special. We?re the great hope of mankind.




More masturbation to make the simpletons feel good.

Quote:

That?s why terrorists seek to destroy us -- because they fear and detest our freedoms and realize those freedoms eventually will be spread everywhere, because freedom is the only idea that really works. Their idea, a Muslim caliphate, has already been tried and has already failed.




Repeat the lies often enough....

First off, most european countries enjoy more freedom and less terrorism than we do. Hmmm.

Lets be honest, we have the freedom to buy the most stuff. We have the best product selection, for the cheapest. :cheers: ...

:whatever:

Secondly,

Bin Laden, the *leader* of the terrorists proclaimed that he wanted the US to stop giving aid to Israeli aggression against palestinians, and to remove its troops from the proximity of the Holy Land.

...Or if you are being paid to spin spin spin to justify the actions and agenda's of those who sign your paycheck: He wants to take over the world!!!11!... and make you a muslim!!!

Funny how the great Muslim conspiracy to take over the world coincides with a slumping American economy and overall rise in oil availability. But I doubt geo-politics have much to do with anything..

This is a very poor article. Luv, I really hope you posted this in haste.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2807850 - 06/19/04 01:55 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"We?re the great hope of mankind. " HAHAHAH what a joke. If this is true I'd kill myself right now.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2808337 - 06/19/04 07:29 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

bravo


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,730
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2808570 - 06/19/04 12:27 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

heh, they are having trouble occupying urban areas of two small countries



You overlook the obvious. The US military is trying not to damage any more than is necessary. were they to attempt to take over the world I doubt they would do the same. I believe it is within their ability to do do.

I also believe no such attempt will ever be made.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2808587 - 06/19/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

well what about ignoring that no one would want to fight that war?

OK, lets say we did. Consider that China alone recently beat out America in production capabilities. The Russians have the best aircraft dogfighters

Europe, while it has no large unified army as it is has no need for one YET, would quickly mobilize and have many willing soldiers.

Japan has the goddamn best technology and nice rockets.

Ok i'm not going to go country by country,
but America is powerful not in itself, but because of its allies. Without them, it would collapse. And still, without America, they would collapse... Nice little problem huh.

America has no advantage other than a hugely overfunded military. Without tactical nukes, they would not have much chance outside of long ranged missle strikes and many many bombing runs. Even knives can kill soldiers..

America has no intimate knowledge of the world and its terrain - ground soldiers would easily get torn apart.


OK wtf, this is retarded
"I bet America could take on the world!!!"
"Not uh!!!!"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,730
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: vampirism]
    #2808599 - 06/19/04 12:46 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

well what about ignoring that no one would want to fight that war?



Without an idea of the circumstances, you can only speculate.

As for the rest, I'll have to disagree.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2808601 - 06/19/04 12:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:shrug:


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2808602 - 06/19/04 12:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

My daddy can beat up your daddy!!!1

In fairness there is no way that the US would win a simultaneous war against every country in the world. However, I do not think if every country in the world banded together, they would be able to stage a successful invasion of the US.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2808610 - 06/19/04 12:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It's my belief that if we were to take all the gloves off, we'd win.

I doubt the US government would be stupid enough to take on all at the same time. My take on what the author meant is by the time the rest banded together it'd be too late.

I agree.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2808625 - 06/19/04 01:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

We?d shoot down every enemy plane, sink every enemy ship, and kill as many enemy soldiers as necessary before they all surrendered. And it?s not just atomic weapons. We could win, and would win, with only conventional weapons.

This sort of restraint is new. It?s never existed before, and, based on history, it should inspire fear around the world. But it doesn?t.

...

We?re unique. We?re special. We?re the great hope of mankind


let's all take the time right now to pat ourselves on the back for not taking over the world! damn we're special.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2808671 - 06/19/04 01:22 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nobody would win.


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: Revelation]
    #2808682 - 06/19/04 01:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You know what? You're probably right in the technical sense.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: vampirism]
    #2811545 - 06/20/04 06:56 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
And it's right -- citizens of the world don't fear the US - they hate it and will assimilate as much of it as they can. When the Egyptians were first conquered, it was because they were technologically backward. After staying conquered a few years, they learned how to use what defeated them, and became a huge power. The world may be behind America on average, but it would not stay that way.




If you are comparing the Egyptians with the rest of the world, as you must be doing for the analogy to even slightly fit, then wouldn't that mean that we'd have to "conquer" the world as we conquered the Egyptians for that to happen?
Quote:


As for the oil, taking on Canada would mean America vs the World.



A battle that we'd easily win.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2812882 - 06/21/04 02:38 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

But we have great power, and we?re benevolent. If we decided to, we could conquer the entire planet. Even if all the militaries of all the world combined, we?d still defeat them. Easily.




Wow - this guy lives in total oblivion.
USA has a great power but it's not benevolent.
You already conquered most of the world, just in a more sophisticated way then Napoleon & co.
While it's true that your army can defeat any organized army in the world it failed against fanatic guerilla in Vietnam and it is failing in Iraq.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: zeronio]
    #2812901 - 06/21/04 02:45 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I wouldn't call America a "benevolent" country.


I would say "relatively benign" to "moderately beneficial" would be a more accurate estimate.


--------------------


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2813893 - 06/21/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Where does this guy get his information on the thoughts of Canadians from, I wonder? :smirk:

Most of us here don't want a large army...which is why we don't have one. I wouldn't be surprised if the US has influenced this issue for a long time, either. We don't have to worry too much about being taken over, because the US already takes as much of our oil and other products as it needs through NAFTA treaties and such. We allow your government to run its radar stations in the north, for the defense of its own missile silos. :smirk:

Your article highlights what the rest of the world does fear about America...its aggressiveness.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: But... but... but.... it's all about the oil! [Re: vampirism]
    #2813996 - 06/21/04 02:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
typical American arrogance in that article.





typical for www.townhall.com :wink:


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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