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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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This war might be about oil.
    #1339918 - 02/27/03 09:42 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I mean think about it really. Ya got Bush right? Son of Bush, son of Texas oil. Chaney ex-Enron ceo, bad people right? Of course. So you got all these slick oil guys and they manipulate some election results so that they win.

Then a couple of buildings fall down. You're with me so far right? And who was responsible? Well, we'll never really know for sure, but it's a safe assumption that it was these oil guys, with the help of the CIA, who answers to no one.

So you got some dead Americans and a whole lot of pissed off Americans and a babbling idiot at the helm. So he says "let's go get Afghanistan blah blah" and everyone thinks it's a good idea because they think that dead Americans outweigh dead Arabs by a number like 1500 to one.

So the oil men sit around and say to each other, "you know...that was pretty easy, lets go get that Iraqui oil now." And they say okay let's do that cuz it'll be fun cuz Iraq is selling their oil through Syria, and not giving it to us for food vouchers like they are supposed to because of the first war we arranged.

Yeah, they arranged it. You remember that whole deal about how we promised the Iraqui dictator that if he invaded Kuwait we wouldn't bother him, because Kuwait was rightfully a part of Iraq in the first place but the English split it in half to protect their oil interests after the big one, but then it turned out we were lying and we used the fact that Hussein gassed his own people to turn him into an evil dictator who was gassing Kuwaitis even though that the gassing incident happened when Hussein was our buddy and we denied it was him doing it at the time it actually happened, because we were after Iran's oil at the time.

So now how do we stage this one? Well, we make a UN resolution, enforcing the UN resolution after the first war we staged. Then we photoshop some evidence and fake some audio tapes to convince the world that the Iraquis are not complying with our sanctions.

UN inspectors say "bullshit, they're complying", we say "I'm sorry are you American? No? Then shut up."

So we and our good friends the Brits mock up some evidence, the Brits get caught because their Hollywood isn't as good as our Hollywood and off we go to claim our oil.

Meanwhile North Korea says well if you can pre-emptively strike Iraq, then we can pre-emptively strike you. Because afterall there is no such thing as a pre-emptive strike. All strikes are emptive.

And now we're talking about getting some of that Iranian oil as well, because they are also a part of the axis of oil. Nevermind the fact that they are a highly westernized Islamic state, with democratic elections, women in school and driving and all that good stuff that makes the Arabs so primitive and worthy of death...they're evil cuz they won't sell US their oil.

More stuff on pre-emptive strikes. I watched Hussein last night and he isn't the raving maniac we were led to believe. He is a man of faith, sure, but then so is Bush. Anyway, why would he threaten us? Remember that he hasn't threatened us. We have threatened him. so all these weapons that he has, he knows that if he steps out of line, he's gonna get the shit bombed otu of him, so he'd have to be pretty stupid to try anything don't you think? Of course.

So by initiating this war, and we are the initiators despite what Bush says, we are leaving Hussein with no other option than to lash out and strike back.

So there you go.

Time to get our oil.


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Offlineflow
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1339926 - 02/27/03 09:47 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

wow, you're probably the most misinformed person i've come across in this forum yet.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1339928 - 02/27/03 09:48 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, this is nothing new....
If you couldn't see it after 9/11, then your pretty blind. But what i dont understand is why other nations and the UN dont say "no invasion of iraq"?! I mean the US cant stand against everyone, ...but i guess with WMD at the disposal of bush, if anything did go wrong with thier plan, theres no gaurantee he wouldn't use them...and that would affect everyone.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: flow]
    #1339932 - 02/27/03 09:49 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Actually...I think he's one of the few people that actually "get's it".


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleClosetCase
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1339944 - 02/27/03 09:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Highly entertaining and intelligent post!  :grin: I love that dead Americans outwiegh dead Arabs 1500 to one.


It's all good except I'm not too sure about them being responsible for 9/11 ...maybe time will tell.   


--------------------
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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1339948 - 02/27/03 09:55 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

They must be heavily reliant on our trade, OR bought off. I doubt that $15 billion offer to South Africa was totally unrelated...and we're also giving a ton of change to Turkey.



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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1340017 - 02/27/03 10:15 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

When i was in turkey the exchange rate from lira to US dollar was: 230 000 : 1

A million lira was like 10 bucks!  It cost a couple thousand to use a public washroom!!! :shocked: :laugh: :tongue:


--------------------
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Lest we forget. "


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Offlineflow
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1340029 - 02/27/03 10:19 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Then a couple of buildings fall down. You're with me so far right? And who was responsible? Well, we'll never really know for sure, but it's a safe assumption that it was these oil guys, with the help of the CIA, who answers to no one.




it's not a safe assumption, it's an extremely paranoid assumption backed by circumstantial evidence.
Quote:

Hussein gassed his own people to turn him into an evil dictator who was gassing Kuwaitis even though that the gassing incident happened when Hussein was our buddy and we denied it was him doing it at the time it actually happened, because we were after Iran's oil at the time.




so are you claiming he's not an evil dictator?
Quote:

UN inspectors say "bullshit, they're complying", we say "I'm sorry are you American? No? Then shut up."




not true, many of the inspectors have said iraq is not complying at all. there is video evidence of inspectors being detained at the gates of an iraqi weapons facility while two flatbed trucks tried to leave out the back. What was on these trucks? Equipment for enriching uranium that clearly violated UN sanctions. This by itself should have been a call to war.
Quote:

I watched Hussein last night and he isn't the raving maniac we were led to believe.



you change your opinion because of one interview? Dan Rather is a dickless old bastard who apparently forgot to ask Saddam any difficult questions. For those of you who think the media is controlled by our gov't, this interveiw should be proof that its not.
Quote:

He is a man of faith



haha how many muslims would agree with that? man of faith my ass.
Quote:

Anyway, why would he threaten us?



because he wants to look like the arab hero who saved them from the evil gentiles. he often compares himself to Salidan.
Quote:

Remember that he hasn't threatened us.



not directly, but he has threatened many of our allies in the region. Should we ignore that?
Quote:

We have threatened him. so all these weapons that he has, he knows that if he steps out of line, he's gonna get the shit bombed otu of him, so he'd have to be pretty stupid to try anything don't you think? Of course.




yes, he knows he's fucked trying to fight us until he gets the atomic bomb. In the 80's he spent more than 8 billion trying, and if it weren't for an israeli airstrike he would have had one by the time he invaded Kuwait, the middle east would be a very different place if that would've happened. Also, i wouldn't put any limits on Saddam's stupidity.
Quote:

So by initiating this war, and we are the initiators despite what Bush says, we are leaving Hussein with no other option than to lash out and strike back.




or to comply with UN weapons inspectors. or to step down from power.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1340121 - 02/27/03 10:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Great post Senor!


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: flow]
    #1340137 - 02/27/03 10:46 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

you change your opinion because of one interview? Dan Rather is a dickless old bastard who apparently forgot to ask Saddam any difficult questions. For those of you who think the media is controlled by our gov't, this interveiw should be proof that its not.





The fact that he was granted an interview at all shows that the media is very liberal. If bush had anything to say about it there would have been no interview.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlineflow
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: sirreal]
    #1340270 - 02/27/03 11:22 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If bush had anything to say about it there would have been no interview.



either that or he would've instructed him to ask questions about saddam's human rights violations, and torturing people. I was extremely surprised there was not a single question about either one of these.


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: flow]
    #1340369 - 02/27/03 12:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Very true! I have not seen the interview yet. I am going to find it on the web if I can.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineyelimS
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1340374 - 02/27/03 12:05 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

great post, yes, but the topic... this war *might* be about oil... *might* heh.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: flow]
    #1341223 - 02/27/03 06:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

>it's not a safe assumption, it's an extremely paranoid assumption backed by circumstantial evidence.

You can call it paranoid if you want, but that wouldn't be very accurate. I don't believe the government is after ME, or that there is a conspiracy that targets ME. They're after Mid East oil, which makes sense considering the crudentials of the administration wouldn't you say?

You think the CIA values life? They don't. Take a look at the laundry list of shit they have done over the past fifty some-odd years and you should see that they don't really value human life.

The evidence *is* circumstantial, but then so is the US's evidence that Iraq is deliberately trying to manipulate the disarmament, are you as critical of that evidence or do you just buy it cuz Uncle Sam said so?

>so are you claiming he's not an evil dictator?

I am claiming that he is whatever the US government needs him to be in order to fit their agenda. Do you wish to deny this?

>not true, many of the inspectors have said iraq is not complying at all. there is video evidence of inspectors being detained at the gates of an iraqi weapons facility while two flatbed trucks tried to leave out the back. What was on these trucks? Equipment for enriching uranium that clearly violated UN sanctions. This by itself should have been a call to war.

If the UN inspectors did not get to see the trucks, how do you know what was on them?

Blix says that Iraq is cooperating. I'll take his word for it, as he is the guy trusted by the UN to report on such matters.

>you change your opinion because of one interview? Dan Rather is a dickless old bastard who apparently forgot to ask Saddam any difficult questions. For those of you who think the media is controlled by our gov't, this interveiw should be proof that its not.

Nah, I've believed it for some time, but the interview sure didn't dissuade me. Rather asked tougher questions than I've seen Bush field since he was appointed president.

Hussein answered very intelligently, moreso than some Western leaders you may have heard of.

But anyway, what about the argument presented? Is your opinion of Rather really the best you can come up with to refute the claim that Hussein would be absolutely out of his mind to start a war with anyone?

It's just a hunch, but I'd say Hussein would rather live in his solid gold palace, making a fortune off of his oil then he would cowering in a bomb shelter awaiting death.

You'd have to admit the guy's got half a brain.


>not directly, but he has threatened many of our allies in the region. Should we ignore that?

By allies you mean people who either sell us oil, lets us house military personell and equipment or buy tons of weapons from us right? That is what an allie makes right?

I haven't heard of any threats, and I seriously doubt any of them have come since the end of the Gulf War.

>yes, he knows he's fucked trying to fight us until he gets the atomic bomb. In the 80's he spent more than 8 billion trying, and if it weren't for an israeli airstrike he would have had one by the time he invaded Kuwait, the middle east would be a very different place if that would've happened. Also, i wouldn't put any limits on Saddam's stupidity.

So once he gets the atomic bomb he can take over the entire world? Really? Ya think?

>or to comply with UN weapons inspectors. or to step down from power

As far as I've heard he's complying from people who have not built fortunes in the oil industry, he is complying.



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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1341370 - 02/27/03 07:51 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Muchus gracios senor


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1341375 - 02/27/03 07:57 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with you Doobie... nice post :wink:


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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1341988 - 02/28/03 05:34 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Nice post S_D  :grin:


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Offlineflow
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1341999 - 02/28/03 05:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

You think the CIA values life? They don't. Take a look at the laundry list of shit they have done over the past fifty some-odd years and you should see that they don't really value human life.




We don't live in a perfect world, the CIA protects us from that. Yes, they have done plenty of shitty things to other countries, probably more than we've even heard about, but they do so to protect our freedom, and our freedom often comes at a high price.
Quote:

The evidence *is* circumstantial, but then so is the US's evidence that Iraq is deliberately trying to manipulate the disarmament, are you as critical of that evidence or do you just buy it cuz Uncle Sam said so?




i can guarantee you that the US has plenty of evidence. The position of the gov't right now is "just trust us for now, we will show you later" i can deal with that. Also, i a bit more trusting of the US gov't than a dictator who came to power and maintains power through brutal force.
Quote:

I am claiming that he is whatever the US government needs him to be in order to fit their agenda. Do you wish to deny this?




Yes i do deny this. He is what he is. A former Baath party offical estimated that saddam has executed about 1000 people every month since he's been in power. Can you say evil??
Quote:

If the UN inspectors did not get to see the trucks, how do you know what was on them?




they did get to see the trucks, they were stopped just down the road.
Quote:

Hussein answered very intelligently, moreso than some Western leaders you may have heard of.




if you call answering intelligently tottally ignoring reality, than i agree. according to saddam, they won the first gulf war.
Quote:

By allies you mean people who either sell us oil, lets us house military personell and equipment or buy tons of weapons from us right? That is what an allie makes right?




yes, what would you call an ally? That is how every country in the world operates, not just the US.
Quote:

So once he gets the atomic bomb he can take over the entire world? Really? Ya think?




no, but with an a-bomb and a missle that can hit israel, he knows no western power will stop him from taking over kuwait, iran,......
I also don't think his wants to take over the world, just the arab world, which he could do once he gets the a-bomb. Seriously, what would've happened in the first Gulf war if he would've had it then? would Kuwait be free right now? Maybe, but i doubt it.



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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: flow]
    #1342068 - 02/28/03 06:22 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

>We don't live in a perfect world, the CIA protects us from that. Yes, they have done plenty of shitty things to other countries, probably more than we've even heard about, but they do so to protect our freedom, and our freedom often comes at a high price.

The only freedom the CIA is interested in protecting is the freedom of the uber-rich to continue to dominate the world.

>i can guarantee you that the US has plenty of evidence. The position of the gov't right now is "just trust us for now, we will show you later" i can deal with that. Also, i a bit more trusting of the US gov't than a dictator who came to power and maintains power through brutal force.

And I could guarentee you that I have plenty of evidence that the US at least had prior knowledge to the events of 9/11, and if not just that were also contributors. Just trust me.

If the US has tons of evidence, why don't they release it? It might help to persuade countries like Russia, France, and China that this is a good idea, don't you think?

>if you call answering intelligently tottally ignoring reality, than i agree. according to saddam, they won the first gulf war.

He didn't say that. All he said was that it was not a defeat for Iraq. He invaded Kuwait, after we told him that we wouldn't mind. When he found out that we were full of shit and very serious about getting him out of Kuwait, he withdrew. He doesn't consider that a defeat, fine. He did not lose power and Iraq did not lose the ability to build their military, so I wouldn't say they were defeated either. Like Hussein said, if it was such a victory for the US, why are we going back?

His perception of reality may be different than yours, but I wouldn't say it's more delusional.


>no, but with an a-bomb and a missle that can hit israel, he knows no western power will stop him from taking over kuwait, iran,......
I also don't think his wants to take over the world, just the arab world, which he could do once he gets the a-bomb. Seriously, what would've happened in the first Gulf war if he would've had it then? would Kuwait be free right now? Maybe, but i doubt it.

Bullshit. Look at the Soviet Union and us during the Cold War, we had tons of nukes pointed at each other, and still practiced conventional warfare, relatively at peace with the fact that neither side would pull the trigger, for fear of the consequences.

Why would the same not hold true in this case?



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Offlineruskifile
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Re: This war might be about oil. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1342108 - 02/28/03 06:48 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If anyone can get hold of a tape or transcript of this great speech by Scott Ritter - card-carrying Republican, who voted for Bush - originally heared on:

alternativeradio.org/



"Scott Ritter was a Marine intelligence officer during the Gulf War. He then became a weapons inspector for the UN from 1991 to 1998, at which point he resigned in protest because of its lack of effectiveness. He declared: "the illusion of arms control is more dangerous than no arms control at all." He produced the documentary "Shifting Sands" which detailed the weapons inspection program during his 7 year tenure. Ritter is the author of "Endgame: Solving the Iraqi Problem Once and For All."


"The US is holding military aid hostage, and for ransom they want immunity in the International Criminal Court. This deal, proctered by Bush, would halt military aid to countries unless they agree not to use the Court to try Americans for war crimes. The International Criminal Court , known as the ICC, was created to try individuals accused of war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity in order to bring criminals to justice and deter future atrocities. Bush's unprecedented "unsigning" of the ICC treaty keeps the US Government on track with its policy of so-called full-spectrum dominance." - officially defined as the ability of US forces operating alone or with allies, to defeat any adversary and control any situation across the range of military operations. There is no better example of unilateral US policies that lead to ever more animosity than our current trajectory in Iraq. "


He points out, among other things, that roughly 95% of Iraq's weapons have already proven to have been eliminated, often through the most diligent efforts of the UN weapons inspectors bit by bit and piece by piece over the years, often against concerted obstruction by the US govt. And that to say that the US is going to war to 'disarm Saddam' is patently ridiculous according to him.  Ritter says that any VX-nerve gas which the Iraqis might have had left over from '91 actually turns to an inactive sludge after 5 years, so all those warheads that Dubya says he still has would be unusable anyway....

Oh, and as for being able to hit our "allies"....well, the Al-Samoud missiles currently being argued about are unguided and only have a range of not more than 170kms, whereas in order to hit Israel, Iraq would need their Scud missiles back to travel the 300-400kms necessary; he said all the Scuds have been destroyed long ago..

(dammit i can't afford the $$ for a copy of the transcript at that price tho  :grin:....)
   


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