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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Gippers death squads
    #2798549 - 06/16/04 12:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Two pages of the Observer were devoted to "How the Gipper stole into American hearts". This was a tribute to Ronald Reagan, whose "sunny attitude" and "iconic status" made him "a consummate communicator" whose "popularity knew no bounds". Yes, he had increased America's war spending as never before, but that was "to fight the Communist peril". Ad nausea. Reagan's true distinctions were as follows. At the height of his "popularity", fewer Americans voted for him than for any modern era president - 27 per cent of the electorate. No other post-1945 president, apart from George W Bush, presided over such a distortion in the economic life of the United States. Billions were taken from ordinary Americans and handed, in tax cuts, to the richest 5 per cent. The Reagan regime helped create the Taliban and supplied Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons. An anti-apartheid sanctions bill was passed in congress only after Reagan tried to veto it. Above all, it was Reagan's secret, illegal and murderous attacks on Central America, one of the world's poorest regions, for which he ought to be remembered. The Observer writer Paul Harris did make a passing reference to the Iran-Contra affair and the "public row" that "claimed some notable scalps". Reagan, however, "survived" - unlike tens of thousands of his victims. For most of his two terms in the 1980s, Reagan secretly approved an onslaught on El Salvador and Nicaragua. In El Salvador, the CIA funded, trained and directed a jack-booted, black-helmeted National Guard which, together with death squads it controlled, murdered thousands, especially moderate reformers: those like Jose Viera, president of the El Salvador Land Reform Institute, and Archbishop Oscar Romera, who was shot dead as he held up the chalice at Mass, having made the mistake of preaching that the enforced poverty of his flock was not God's will, and they should resist the American-sponsored terror regime. On rubbish tips outside San Salvador, morning after morning, I saw bodies killed by Reagan's clients, including pregnant women. In its attacks on Nicaragua, Reagan's "contra" forces specialised in slitting the throats of midwives and children as they slept. In charge of this terrorism was John Negroponte, US ambassador to Honduras, who, reported the Baltimore Sun, created and directed a military unit that "used shock and suffocation devices in interrogations. Prisoners often were kept naked and, when no longer useful, killed and buried in unmarked graves." George W Bush has just appointed Negroponte as the first American "ambassador" to "liberated" Iraq.

http://pilger.carlton.com/print


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Xlea321]
    #2798706 - 06/16/04 12:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:yawn:


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2798801 - 06/16/04 01:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:gonzo:


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2798822 - 06/16/04 01:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

yes...the weight of truth can be tiring and trying...


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Gippers death squads [Re: afoaf]
    #2798848 - 06/16/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Weekly World News says Batboy is joining the fight on terrorism!



Yay!


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2798851 - 06/16/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

he is so gonna woop some evildoer ass!

sick 'em, bat boy!!!!`


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: afoaf]
    #2798964 - 06/16/04 02:16 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

yes...the weight of truth can be tiring and trying




yes it is....especially the millionth time over.  :yawn:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Xlea321]
    #2799742 - 06/16/04 05:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

At the height of his "popularity", fewer Americans voted for him than for any modern era president - 27 per cent of the electorate.

and his oppenent recieved what percent of the electorate?

what percentage actually voted?

No other post-1945 president, apart from George W Bush, presided over such a distortion in the economic life of the United States.

meaning...?

Billions were taken from ordinary Americans and handed, in tax cuts, to the richest 5 per cent.

ah.

i'm curious about this one. how were billions "taken" from ordinary americans? that would seem to imply taxes to me.... but then... the money was handed to the rich in the form of tax cuts... that certainly makes no sense. perhaps if it was given back in subsidies or something... but tax cuts?

we must be using the socialist definition of the word "taken".

i'll venture a guess. what the writer is saying is that billions of government handouts were "taken" from ordinary americans. they had been provided by the "rich", who after the tax cuts were allowed to keep their money.

what a distortion of economic life!  :smirk:

the rest of the article is ok. reagan certainly did make a few mistakes in his time.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,727
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Xlea321]
    #2799825 - 06/16/04 06:16 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think you can post just about anything and no-one will point out what crap it is?

Reagan: 43,899,000 (50.8%)
Carter: 35,481,000 (41.0%)
Anderson: 5,719,000 (6.6%)
Other third party candidates: 1,366,000 (1.6%)


Ronald Reagan: 525 54,455,000 (58.8%)
Walter F. Mondale: 13 37,577,000 (40.5%)
David Bergland: 228,705 (0.3%)
Lyndon LaRouche: 78,807 (0.1%)
Other 303,000 0.3%

Have a little dignity, will you?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,727
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: ]
    #2799828 - 06/16/04 06:17 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRedo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2799838 - 06/16/04 06:22 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

^^^, I can hardly read this article, its like half the story filled with lies or manipulated information.

These boards are sad when Reagan is considered one of the greatest presidents by most people, but here he seems to be another devil like GWB. Landslide second election, the whole nine yards but here he still is evil, I just dont get it.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Redo]
    #2799906 - 06/16/04 06:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

you don't get it because you don't like to
pay attention to fact and detail.

reagan was a bad governor and a bad
president.


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Xlea321]
    #2799959 - 06/16/04 07:10 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Let the Gipper rest already. You're giving Ann Coulter the benefit.


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OfflineRedo
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: afoaf]
    #2800104 - 06/16/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
you don't get it because you don't like to
pay attention to fact and detail.

reagan was a bad governor and a bad
president.




Ok, I pay attention to facts not to posts only, and I still side with the majority of Americans believing Reagan was the best thing for this country at exactly the right time.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: Redo]
    #2800137 - 06/16/04 08:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

what was so good about reagan aside from the
fact that he was a loveable grampa type?

iran/contra
WOD
bad tax cuts
ballooning deficits
fumbled the first war on terror


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
Re: Gippers death squads [Re: afoaf]
    #2800268 - 06/16/04 08:56 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

A lovable grampa type was kind of what was needed at the time. I was 23 in 1980 and we had just had 4 years of the asshole Jimmy Carter. Gas lines and hostages in Iraq were his legacy, the cunt, may he never speak his "nuanced" shit again. The message that "America doesn't suck" was important. Reagan made me very nervous with his bellicose talk of confronting the Communist threat, in light of the recent horror of Vietnam, which killed 50,000 of my older brothers and cousins. He gets, I think, far too much credit for the economic boom of the 80s, which was largely built on real estate fraud and junk bonds, just as Clinton's was built on internet stocks with P/E ratios of infinity. Home loans were at 13,14,15,16% but banks would lend on all kinds of inflated valuations. It was the decade of Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken. The government ran massive deficits. The crash that this brought about was paid for by Bush Sr. Fortunately for Bush Jr. the Clinton crash occured before he took office.

I also don't think Reagan deserves the credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union. True he kept up a rhetorical pressure and forced them to spend hideously on defense but it was Nixon's policy of detente that killed the Communist party in the good old USSR. The people wanted Levis and rock and roll and toilet paper. Likewise China. It just took a little time.

In the end, I think we needed the optimistic message because of all the hideous shit we had just gone through with Vietnam and Watergate and hostages and gas lines. Sometimes, attitude is more important than policy. Not often, and I'm not sure we wouldn't have gotten it back without him, but it didn't hurt.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Gippers death squads [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2800359 - 06/16/04 09:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I just don't feel that reagan's cuddliness makes up for his
messes.

he fucked up beirut like carter did the iran crisis, his boom
went bust (on bush's face), we're still living in nancy's DARE
america and, of primary importance, his maneuverings in
South and Central America led to the United States being
deemed a Terrorist Nation by the World Court and our ulitmate
withdrawal from that body.

I wholeheartedly understand the point you are trying to make,
but just because Clinton was suave doesn't make up for all
his fucking bullshit....economic boom or not.


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