Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Phred]
    #2791463 -

Newsflash -- the employer needs income to survive as well.

"Survive" is a little dramatic. A guy who pays himself millions every year while paying his workforce less than minimum wage (even for a third world country) doesn't know the meaning of the word.

If he can't find someone who can perform that function at the price he calculates he can pay, he does without. Simple

Or he moves his operation to South east asia or Mexico and hires little girls he can more easily intimidate. And if any desperately brave little girl has the temerity to try and form a union or demand safety in the workplace they are either fired or beaten to a pulp. Simple.

We went through all this 150 years ago. People fought back and established rights for all working people. To see the rich now attempting to repeal all progress and send us back into the dark ages is truly appalling.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2791523 -

DoctorJ writes:

my point is that no work is really voluntary. I mean, no one, employer or employee, really wants to work. If people could survive by doing nothing but snorting coke and fucking hookers, then they would.

And once again you are projecting your own attitudes onto others. It is absolutely not the case that "no one" wants to work. Where on earth did you ever get that idea? I want to work. People who are forced to retire from jobs they love want to work. People who have won honking big lottery prizes continue working.

I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but I have sufficient investments now that I can live comfortably here in the Dominican Republic without working. But I don't. I enjoy working. Maybe twenty years from now I'll feel differently. But not now.

the perfect job is the job that the applicant is most capable of, preferably one that utilizes his capabilities to the fullest but does not overtax him physically or mentally.

See my comments in the other thread. You've left out the most important qualification -- the empolyee's love (or lack thereof) of the work he chooses to engage in.

As I said earlier, no employment is fully voluntary...

As you said incorrectly.

... but the applicant should have his pick of the jobs he is best qualified for...

LOL! And how is that to be achieved absent complete government control over all employment -- i.e. totalitarianism?

...assuming that those positions are being offered because they are in demand.

Ah ha! There's the rub. What if someone is perfectly qualifed to be an auto mechanic, but there is no demand for auto mechanics? Does the government give him a job as an auto mechanic anyway? Doesn't sound terribly efficient to me.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2791534 -

Baby_Hitler asks:

What exactly is the point of this article?

What do you think is the point of it?

I think the guy is trying to say that the "doers" end up contributing more to the well-being of humanity as a whole than the "talkers". I happen to agree with him on that, so I posted it.

It is fashionable today to pooh-pooh those who actually accomplish anything by deriding them as heartless moneygrubbers. If one's motives are less than pristine (and "pristine" is always defined by the chattering classes, natch) then the good one accomplishes counts for nothing. "He's not interested in bettering the lives of those he employs, he just wants a giant mansion on the hill." Even if this is in fact the motivation of someone who provides a good living for thousands of employees, so what? The undeniable fact is that his own "greed" has benefited many more lives than Norman Mailer's "selflessness" ever did.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Phred]
    #2791567 -

Quote:
And once again you are projecting your own attitudes onto others. It is absolutely not the case that "no one" wants to work. Where on earth did you ever get that idea? I want to work. People who are forced to retire from jobs they love want to work. People who have won honking big lottery prizes continue working.




hmmm. you are correct. I commited a cognitive error and I thank you for pointing it out to me. Come to think of it, my father could have retired years ago and yet he continues to work. And i suppose that when i play guitar that could be considered voluntary work.

but i will say that i have met many people who seemed not to want to work at all.

Quote:
Ah ha! There's the rub. What if someone is perfectly qualifed to be an auto mechanic, but there is no demand for auto mechanics? Does the government give him a job as an auto mechanic anyway? Doesn't sound terribly efficient to me.




I believe i answered this in the other thread.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Phred]
    #2791619 -

Most "doers" are just takers. What they "do" was already being done, they were just able to gain market share and eliminate someone elses job and "create" another one under their control.


What these people do isn't at all special or particularly valuable. If they weren't doing it someone else would be.


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2791631 -

Baby_Hitler writes:

Most "doers" are just takers.

Dude, you've really got watch how you use the word "most". That statement is in no way even close to being accurate.

What they "do" was already being done...

Sure it was -- by other "doers". It sure as hell isn't being done by the talkers. What's your point?

... they were just able to gain market share and eliminate someone elses job and "create" another one under their control.

Did Edison steal "market share" from the candle makers? Yep. Did Ford steal market share from the buggy makers? Yep. Did MacDonalds steal market share from A&W? Yep. But that's not the point the author is making. His point is that a single clothing factory in the Zona Franca near Puerto Plata does more good for the people of the Dominican Republic than all the Peace Corp wonks who come out for a year singing "Kumbaya" to the workers in the cane fields.

What these people do isn't at all special or particularly valuable.

His point is that what they do is of greater value than what is done by the talkers.

If they weren't doing it someone else would be.

His point is that the someone else who would be doing it is also a doer, not a talker.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2791648 -

Quote:
my point is that no work is really voluntary. I mean, no one, employer or employee, really wants to work.


Bullshit. My grandfather had more than enough money to stop working while in his 50's. He kept running his business until the day he died in a car crash at the age of 83. He worked because he wanted to.

There are others I know who do the same, myself included. At 46 I don't have to work. I do so because I get bored so I run my own business. YOU may wish to never work, many others may not wish to work, but many also take great enjoyment in working.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Phred]
    #2791952 -

I think the guy is trying to say that the "doers" end up contributing more to the well-being of humanity as a whole than the "talkers".

I presume by "doers" you mean the assholes who exploit slave labour in third world countries? Funny, I don't see too many of those countries bristling with wealth as a result of the "doers" presence. Just kids living in tin shacks working 100 hour weeks to buy enough food to live that week. With "doers" like that in charge, who needs enemies.

The undeniable fact is that his own "greed" has benefited many more lives than Norman Mailer's "selflessness" ever did.

According to you. Rest assured if every corporation pulled out of the third world tomorrow they wouldn't be missed by the poor. They are making massive amounts of money for themselves and not even bothering to pay a pittance for decent housing or education for the kids they have slaving for them. If you can't understand why that's wrong there's no point explaining it to you.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Xlea321]
    #2791961 -

Alex123 said:
I presume by "doers" you mean the assholes who exploit slave labour in third world countries?


Are you aware that there are other ways of becoming rich?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: silversoul7]
    #2792092 -

In canada 'charity' is the best way to make profit....you can actually save money if you donate enough and get the tax back, then if you paid tax on all the net profit....


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2792158 -

In America we call that a pyramid scheme.


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Phred]
    #2792192 -

If it werent for the talkers the doers would be doing alot more for themselves and doing alot more to everybody else.


What do you know about the Peace Corp. A freind of mine was in the Peace Corp. She got kicked out for, she says, "not being American enough".

Apparently that's what they do, teach third worlders how to act American.


Also, doing and talking are not mutually exclusive. One person can do both.

Would you consider Cesar Chavez to be a doer or a talker?


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2792912 -

Baby_Hitler writes:

What do you know about the Peace Corp.

Dude, I live in a third world country. I meet peace Corps people all the time. I used to serve them drinks at the bar, my girlfriend and I have accompanied them on visits to the Haitian cane-cutters' community between here and Puerto Plata, the friend of my girlfriend runs a mountain-biking tour business which donates to Peace Corps activities. There's almost always a couple of earnest PC types hanging around her shop.

I'll wager a substantial amount I have met more Peace Corps workers than you. I know for a fact I've seen them in action more than you have.

Also, doing and talking are not mutually exclusive. One person can do both.

Of course. Yet the fact remains that the industrialist who opens a factory here which employs a couple of hundred people does more for the poor in this country than the Peace Corps volunteers who teach them how to build solar stills. And, of course, Peace Corps volunteers are themselves doers. It's just that what they do (through no fault of their own) is less effective at relieving poverty than what employers do.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Xlea321]
    #2792962 -

Alex123 writes:

I presume by "doers" you mean the assholes who exploit slave labour in third world countries?

By doers I refer to those who create wealth. You know nothing about life in a third world country, so of course you have convinced yourself that employers in those countries are perceived as slave drivers and exploiters. The people who actually live here and work in those factories see them as neither.

Rest assured if every corporation pulled out of the third world tomorrow they wouldn't be missed by the poor.

That is perhaps one of the top ten most assinine pronouncements I have ever seen on this board, and I've seen plenty.

Again, you know absolutely nothing about this. I have written here several times about the reaction of the Dominican workers to the ex-government's (yes, thank goodness the government was defeated in the May 16 elections) economic policies which resulted in a mass exodus of foreign companies four years ago. You can rest assured that the loss of those corporations was sorely missed by the poor.

They are making massive amounts of money for themselves and not even bothering to pay a pittance for decent housing or education for the kids they have slaving for them. If you can't understand why that's wrong there's no point explaining it to you.

They are paying more than anyone else is willing to. If you can't understand that there's no point explaining it to you.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Phred]
    #2793200 -

I wasn't challenging your knwoledge of Peace Corp, I just wanted more detail.

Are you quite certain of the value of the things that the Peace Corps have done?

Are people more hireable in any way because of aid given by Peace Corp?

Do they help people obtain any kind of liek education or stuff?


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Phred]
    #2793741 -

You can rest assured that the loss of those corporations was sorely missed by the poor

I've read the same shit about japanese companies who came into the north of england after Thatcher devastated the mines and unemployment was hitting 40-60%. They paid nothing and exploited the high unemployment rate. In the late 90's most of them pulled out (probably to go to south east asia). There was an article by the mayor about "how much they will be missed". I met a few guys who worked at the place in the bar and they were buying me drinks and saying "Thank god those fucks are going".

Don't confuse what your rich pals say with what the poor think. They arn't always the same thing. Not everyone likes being paid a pittance by people making a fortune exploiting their misfortune.

As for the japanese factories - no-one gave a fuck when they went.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Xlea321]
    #2794009 -

I would never usually do this, but Alex maybe you should just quit while you're behind. I have no clue how you're going to argue against Pinkys first-hand experiences.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2794585 -


but really, despite whatever ideological illusions you may hold
dear, most employment is not voluntary at all.


Having to expend effort in order to survive is something that
people have to do. Whether that means living in the woods
and hunting for food or sitting in an office and using your
paycheck to buy goods. Effort is an absolute and undeniable
necessity in people's lives. In a free-market economy that has
a lot of goods and services, and that has a high standard of living,
the amount of comfort we have for what we have to do is much
preferrable to any other way of life. For example, I would rather
run a gas pump and live in a shitty apartment than be out in the
woods barely scraping by on twigs and berries. Even the lowest of
the low in stable and modern capitalist economies live like kings in
comparison to how Man used to live. You seem to complain about
"how things are", yet you have had the freedom to become educated
and do things in your life. You enjoy comforts(you are using a
computer) and when you think about it....is life actually that bad for you?

In an advanced free-market economy, you have a lot of power in
determining what it is that you want to do to survive. Whereas a
"Natural Man" doesn't have much of a choice...he has to forage for
food...a member of a free-market economy can pick from a myriad
of things to do.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Be moral -- make a shitload of money [Re: Xlea321]
    #2795563 -

Alex123 writes:

Don't confuse what your rich pals say with what the poor think.

I don't. I have met people who used to work in those factories, and I know people who work in the factories still open. I know their feelings on the matter because I have talked to them, not to "rich" pals. I once hired a girl who had worked in one of the Taiwanese clothing factories that had closed to work behind the counter in my boutique. She was a pretty trustworthy employee, though not a particularly good sales person.

When another factory opens here, there are very long queues of people anxious to work there. When a factory closes, there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Not everyone likes being paid a pittance by people making a fortune exploiting their misfortune.

Not everyone likes to work, period, as DoctorJ points out. That is an entirely different statement than saying that if all the corporations were to pull out of the Third World, the poor wouldn't miss them. They would.

As for the japanese factories - no-one gave a fuck when they went.

The Japanese factories that pulled out of England? England is to be considered a Third World country now?

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* NAFTA's Investor ''Rights'': A Corporate Dream, A Citizens.. Psilocybeingzz 941 3 06/09/03 12:17 PM
by Anonymous
* America is being bought out by foreign investors
( 1 2 all )		 The_Red_Crayon 6,155 39 06/02/07 03:53 AM
by FrenchSocialist
* Morales will not eradicate coca Alex213 692 3 01/23/06 12:42 PM
by Alex213
* Moral Truths
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 Azmodeus 3,654 82 07/30/03 12:52 PM
by Azmodeus
* Pope says US morals cause of priest pedophiles
( 1 2 all )		 SeussA 1,666 21 04/20/08 01:40 PM
by afoaf
* Canadian investors lose $25 billion Luddite 676 1 11/05/06 11:32 AM
by Luddite
* morality and the law
( 1 2 all )		 hongomon 2,433 33 11/20/02 04:08 PM
by BleaK
* What have muslims or islam contributed to modern society?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )		 Innvertigo 14,393 180 09/24/04 09:15 PM
by Phred

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
3,529 topic views. 0 members, 25 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 15 queries.