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... All of my wealth has been obtained through providing products or services to those who are willing to pay for them. Same with my parents. Same with all my siblings and all my neighbors who I have ever known.

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Alex123 said:

No more than the corporation down the street building a factory and belching fumes in the atmosphere affects the right to live my life.

Do you drive? If you are driving a car you are forcefully making other people breathe your pollution. Arn't you taking away their ability to run their own lives? What if their kid has asthma?

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The Federal Reserve has been in existence since 1913. The money supply has been manipulated by the entity ever since. As the currency in circulation increases (monetary inflation), it's relative worth decreases, driving up prices. This was occurring at the hands of the Fed before most people were even born.

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Wealth creation is not a zero sum game.

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Most people never attempt any such thing. What would be the purpose of a person attempting to prevent others from gaining wealth?

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However, you have a very ignorant view of business if you think it is about screwing the next generation. Businesses rely on customers, screw your customers and you will suffer in the long run. Most businesses do no operate this way, they want to stay in business.

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Maybe $8 an hour is all your worth. Despite what your ego tells you, employers are a much better judge of the value of your services. 

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  No employer I've ever had even came close to putting my skills to use.  My knowledge and intelligence are more of a liability than an asset in the workplace.  Why?  Because people get threatened by those who are more intelligent or more skilled than them.  The boss's ego often times gets in the way of productivity.  This is how its been at every single place I've worked.  Why else would they fire me if my numbers are the highest and customers ask for me by name?  I've even had managers straight up tell me:  'I want to promote you, you are by far the most qualified, but my boss doesn't like you, so you're fired'

Not to mention the fact that 90% of my education is autodiadactic.  I fix my own cars and my own computers.  I read for fun.  But I don't have certifications, or any kind of experience on record.  I can do these jobs, but I can't get these jobs.  That would require an inside connection.  Jobs dont go to the most qualified, they go to the boss's friends and relatives.  Failing that, they go to the best dressed.  Such is human nature.  People use inaccurate predictors and jump to faulty conclusions.  All the time. 

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Employers can't afford to hire people without expecting a return of their investment. 

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If they do, they are idiots, and will soon be out of business.

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What the hell kind of skills do you have and what industries have you worked in?

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you got a few minutes?

I was building and programming computers back when most adults didn't even know how to turn a computer on.  I was making webpages back in '95 at age 15, when the only html editor was notepad. 

I can fix any problem on any car as long as I have the manual. 

I'm fully trained in all office software such as access, spreadsheet and word.  After years of using complicated programs like 3DStudio Max, photoshop, and Logic, most office software is like a children's toy to me.  I've yet to encounter a software program that I could not master in a very short amount of time.  I've spent hours helping bosses twice my age and half my intelligence figure out how to use MSOffice. 

I can solder and build electronics.  I was building electric guitars at age 16.  I've wired many home theaters and many car stereos.  I've rewired electronic appliances to alter their function. 

I am an artist, writer, and musician.  I have studied art history and music theory. 

I can also do carpentry, masonry, metal smithing, ac/heater repair, or any other kind of home repair for that matter.  (hmmm, well, actually I've never done foundation work)

I cut my own hair.  I cook my own meals.  having worked at a health food store for 3 years, I am well-educated in nutrition, including supplements and vitamins. 

I'm good with people, as long as I take my herbal supplements   I have completed all the requirements for my ba in psych and am currently working on my masters in nueroscience via the fast track program offered by my university. 

I have a good understanding of the scientific method, and have applied for many research assistant positions at my university.  Unfortunately, these positions usually tend to go to the student that kisses the most ass, whether they are qualified or not. 

I'm good with numbers, and have studied physics as a hobby.  I got an A in both micro- and macro- economics and I didn't even buy the textbook or show up to class very often. 

I am well read and have studied all world religions.  I have studied history and politics.  I am familiar with the culture and social customs of many peoples. 

I've never been given a mangerial position, but whenever I have to do a group project for school, I have always been elected group leader, and everyone asks me what to do.  I usually end up having to coordinate the whole thing and do most of the work.  So you could say I have experience with people under me, although the only reason people would work under me is for their own self-interst and laziness in scholarly persuits.  If any real power and money were involved, they would take the leadership position for themselves and make me do shit work. 

The american corporate culture values ego over merit.  Its as simple as that.  Its really not even a corporate problem, its a human problem.  People have extremely poor judgement when it comes to social matters.  Psychological and sociological factors effect the workplace and influence people to make extremely bad decisions.  Go to your local university library and search their research databases if you don't believe me.  Its all been documented via controlled experimentation. 

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Well, when you run a business, you will be in a position to make that judgement.

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The employer and employee mutually decide upon the job, both are free to negotiate compensation or to decline to enter into an agreement of employment.

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This is not something that is undertaken by investors, but by the state.

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I submit to you that if this is the case, then they could get such jobs

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thats just naive.  In the real world, being able to do a job doesnt mean being able to get that job.  And sadly, not being able to do a job doesnt mean not being able to get that job. 

I applied for a job at this gas station once.  I didn't get it, but they gave the job to this idiot foriegner that didn't even know how to operate the register or the lottery ticket machine.  I have had to go behind the counter and help him with it numerous times, just because I was sick of waiting in line for him to figure it out himself.  Why did that dude get the job instead of me?  I was willing to work for the same amount of pay, despite the fact that I was obviously overqualified.  He probably got the job because he knew someone I didn't

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Your assessment of other's marketable skill sets are not born of knowledge of being an employer, but of someone who makes arm chair pronouncements about that which he is not in a position to offer an informed opinion of.

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Again, sour grapes. How many businesses have your run? How many payrolls have you had to meet? How many employees have you had to fire because they weren't being productive or conscientious or were alienating customers? How many businesses have you consulted for?

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News flash: human psychology affects the bottom line. This is why employers look for people who can work well with others, will be presentable to customers, and will be reliable at their jobs.

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The actions of my generation? Are you attempting to lamely put the blame on me by association of age?

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There is not a static quantity of wealth in existence, it is an ever-increasing quantity. Wealth is produced by human effort. Before wealth can be looted (oops! excuse me -- let me use the politically correct term instead; "redistributed") it must first be produced. Lefties seem to believe that in order for someone to prosper, someone else must suffer correspondingly. This is patently false. I can produce enough through my own effort to lead a prosperous life without taking a single thing from anyone else. The fact that I earned enough to drink a bottle of champagne every day doesn't mean that I have somehow prevented a goatherd in Somalia from building a new hut for himself. The fact that I drive a Mercedes doesn't prevent you from driving a Ferrarri.

It's not as if the wealth of the world is a giant pizza and if I eat two slices someone else is stuck munching on the box.

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Most stockholders are average shmoes who have their retirement money invested, hoping to live comfortably in their golden years.

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Sev said:

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Most stockholders are average shmoes who have their retirement money invested, hoping to live comfortably in their golden years.

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This is, fundamentally, a wrong fact -- a red herring.

Yes, numerically, most stockholders are people like you say. But most stock is not held by them. The great majority of stock in a company tends to be held by a very few parties with a controlling interest. So, for every dollar of dividends produced, 30 cents might go to one man, another 40 to maybe ten more entities, and then the remainder to everyone else. A very few people make a great deal of money, but the 'average stockholder' gets something like a few hundredths of a percent of a cent.

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  You cant just say 'fuck your terms' and walk out when you have mouths to feed and bills to pay.

What's your point?

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my point is that no work is really voluntary.  I mean, no one, employer or employee, really wants to work.  If people could survive by doing nothing but snorting coke and fucking hookers, then they would.  People don't work because they want to, they work because they have to in order to survive.  You could say that their own high maintenance bodies have initiated force against them, forcing them to work  

remember the old story of Tom and Huck and the whitewashed fence?  Accodring to mark twain, work is defined as anything you don't want to do but have to.  I can agree with that, from a psychological perspective (yes I know physicists and economists define 'work' differently). 

but really, despite whatever ideological illusions you may hold dear, most employment is not voluntary at all. 

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In what way is it the fault of the person offering a less-than-perfect job to an applicant that the applicant doesn't have the required attributes to acquire the perfect job?

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