the_chosen_one said:

B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.

I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet.

Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.

Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.

BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray.

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B Traven said:

the_chosen_one said:

B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.

I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet.

Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.

Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.

BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray.

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Calmer than you are, dude.
Calmer than you are.

Seriously, tho, assuming that all you say is true, it got me thinking.

I mean, all day we see people squirting some syringe they ordered into microwaveable rice bags or whatever under god knows what conditions. I can't in good conscience tell them that I think squirting spores to grain is a good idea. And I'm sick of seeing people blame their failures on a "bunk syringe."

But if you're coming at it from the other side, having eliminated agar from your practice, then maybe you've really nailed down keeping all aspects of the life cycle clean to such an extent that your syringes are generally far cleaner and fresher. How long do they sit around after being made? Are you working in laminar flow? Etc., etc.

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Ashtray161 said:

B Traven said:

the_chosen_one said:

B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.

I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet.

Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.

Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.

BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray.

---

Calmer than you are, dude.
Calmer than you are.

Seriously, tho, assuming that all you say is true, it got me thinking.

I mean, all day we see people squirting some syringe they ordered into microwaveable rice bags or whatever under god knows what conditions. I can't in good conscience tell them that I think squirting spores to grain is a good idea. And I'm sick of seeing people blame their failures on a "bunk syringe."

But if you're coming at it from the other side, having eliminated agar from your practice, then maybe you've really nailed down keeping all aspects of the life cycle clean to such an extent that your syringes are generally far cleaner and fresher. How long do they sit around after being made? Are you working in laminar flow? Etc., etc.

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Makes me wonder how many times vendors have had to replace a "bunk syringe" when the "cultivator" was splooging them into bags of UB lol

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san pedro guy said:

Spors syringes should be about the same quality as you’d expect from some pre made grains bags. Never know who made it or if it was done write.

Home made is always better

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home made is definitely better... but for someone doing their first grow, a vendor syringe is usually the starting point.. even if they're not the best, most of them are good enough for a successful pf tek grow..

Once someone is able to produce their own spores, vendor syringes kinda become obsolete unless it's something special and you can't seem to get your hands on it through the community

B Traven said:

the_chosen_one said:

B calm down man. I haven't even read your post yet lol.

I knew this would ruffle feathers. Don't count me out as an asshole just yet.

Give me some time to get in my door and I'll settle in here in a bit.

Just to be clear 98% is only this step. The majority of my failures come later during the fruiting stage.

BTW. I really like OP and even Ashtray.

---

Calmer than you are, dude.
Calmer than you are.

Seriously, tho, assuming that all you say is true, it got me thinking.

I mean, all day we see people squirting some syringe they ordered into microwaveable rice bags or whatever under god knows what conditions. I can't in good conscience tell them that I think squirting spores to grain is a good idea. And I'm sick of seeing people blame their failures on a "bunk syringe."

But if you're coming at it from the other side, having eliminated agar from your practice, then maybe you've really nailed down keeping all aspects of the life cycle clean to such an extent that your syringes are generally far cleaner and fresher. Just less crap in the mix over multiple generations. How long do they sit around after being made? Are you working in laminar flow? Etc., etc.

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Cool. Cool. I like you too lol.

I'm with you. Believe me. Especially blaming syringes. I'm just saying they ain't doing it right.

Honestly out of several vendors only two have sent me provable actively dirty syringes. One doesn't exist anymore and the other worked it out. I don't buy a lot but I like to add to the collection every few years so that's to be kept in context.

It does lead me to believe the source of contamination is procedural in most cases. Next on my list would be like you said.. the grain. I'll spend the extra buck a pound. Totally worth it. I know it sucks working under a budget.. all too well. Ugh. But it’s about cutting the right corners. Playing advocate for the lazy person of course. For the last several years I've been using mostly Bob's Red Mill Pearl Barley. 24 to 48 hour soak to wake up what few nasties are in there. Gravity drain until it barely drips then PC. Time depends on how much is in the jar but a minimum of 30 minutes per cup of soaked grain. I keep everything small.. mostly pint jars.
This is all with very clean well water. Never tested with city water but it's something to consider. The results might vary. Lead and fluoride concentrate as water boils. Not really shit I want in there either for several reasons.
Syringes are always made PF style with distilled water and a gram of agar flakes per gallon. PF used to do a gram per liter but it's almost a waste of agar flakes. My formula works just as well for anti-clumping imo.

the_chosen_one said:

I hate to be skeptic but I'm failing to understand how the PF Tek is less prone to contamination than a grain jar when it's the same thing. Spores going to grain. This is a great write up and I admire the passion.. knowing this took some time and effort. I guess I'm the Yang to the Yin in this case. I grow via a lot of different methods, but my most common option is spores to grain just because of the simplicity. My success rate is easily 98% making my own syringes and maybe just a little lower using vendor supplied. Like I said.. not trying to be negative. It's just this topic always leaves me a bit confused. Maybe it's because I started the long route with agar (and still use it today) but eventually worked myself back to the simple.

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the_chosen_one said:

Ok. Posting on the run. Still haven't read every post yet lol. Exceptional Situation. Not really. Just started diffently than most. Homestead agar kit and before that, stealing chunks of turf, gardens and chip piles to transplant. That's all we had. No internet and few books.
Now there’s such a wealth of resources it's very likely that some are crap. Go to a good time proven vendor if you are new to this. *this message brought to you by Sporeworks*
Thinking back PF used to claim contamination resistance and superior potency with BRF. At first I was like yeah whatever. Same weird shit grows on my agar, grain and PF jars. But after trying millet it opened up a whole new world. Got me experimenting with grains in general. So I do agree that brown rice feeds less of the nasties we need to worry about. The method itself requires less sterilization work. It can even be done in a double boiler.
Anyways I guess maybe I've become comfortable with so many methods they all kind of seem the same now.
I can say for new people however, each grain has it's own personality. Each it's own contamination vectors. Cheap can drive you nuts so don't skimp initially. Avoid no soak teks initially. Non active bacteria are very hard to kill. Let them wake up before you try. Don't make syringes from foil prints initially. Follow the PF Tek for print to syringes.
I got a lot more but gotta run for now.

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Rotnpins said:

Maybe I should update this to include a section about UB

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B Traven said:

Rotnpins said:

Maybe I should update this to include a section about UB

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Ok, I've got something to contribute to that section:

"Contaminants can be found everywhere, which is why sterile technique is so important. One source of contamination that's not often mentioned is Reddit. It can easily infect you with brain rot."

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