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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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My Theory On The Problem With Oats * 2
    #27879422 -

A little bit of a read but I invite
you read my unified grain theory that
pertains to all grain prepping but
specifically to oats and the inconsistency
of the "bad bag" and bacterial problems
some people  have

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27879371


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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69]
    #27879434 -

Thanks rumfor69, that makes perfect sense. Pretty simple when you think about it. I'm going to use Oats soon I'll try this method when I prep them.


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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69]
    #27879452 -

rumfor69 said:
A little bit of a read but I invite
you read my unified grain theory that
pertains to all grain prepping but
specifically to oats and the inconsistency
of the "bad bag" and bacterial problems
some people  have

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27879371


:allseeingeye:


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the observer is the observed
            j. krishnamurti


>The Hitchhiker‘s Guide to the Shroomery<

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69]
    #27879486 -

poorly prepped oats...no, that's not it. been there done that...moved on.

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: normalperson]
    #27879513 -

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17029018#17029018

Countless posts about endospores out there
but this is the exact science on all of it.
So if you can explain to me how
Completely hydrated endospores in your oats
are surviving the pressure cooker so much
that your jars contaminate and fail I'd
love to hear it honestly.


And beyond that explain to me how a
"bad bag" is the cause of this problem when knowing how the seeds are mixed and come
from over huge distances in the field.


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Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

Edited by rumfor69 (07/27/22 05:02 PM)

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69]
    #27879676 -

Tis but a theory. I boil whatever grains i'm using until theyre fat and hydrated. Oats from various sources have consistently given me more issues than other grain.

If you cant find any other grains then i get it.


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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69]
    #27879683 -

I always felt like the problem wasn’t with the acreage, but maybe a specific silo or warehouse. I have oats that haven’t gotten a proper field test with anexic culture, so I won’t comment on how I find mine. I simply don’t know.

Having said that, I think your approach to preparing them is a sensible one. It’s basically a warm soak. The problems people have with oars have always intrigued me, given the purpose of a pressure cooker cycle, and I’m not learned enough yet to agree or disagree with people’s particular feelings about the grain.

People use it. People have great success with it. I have close to 50lbs of it, so there will come a time when I use it as food. I think there’s something to this. I think it can be made to work.


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The 7 Edicts of Mushroom Cultivation as Decreed by Smellyhobbit

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Anyone can get a canopy. But can you get what you want?

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #27879710 -

LotKid said:
Tis but a theory. I boil whatever grains i'm using until theyre fat and hydrated. Oats from various sources have consistently given me more issues than other grain.

If you cant find any other grains then i get it.


Ehhh theory based on existing facts with
no proof to the contrary is a rationally
believed theory. Oats are tough to cook
till they're fat and hydrated because as
I said in the OP seeds that are easily
hydrated in this very inconsistent type
of seed, burst before a lot of the other
seeds are completely hydrated and makes
you stop cooking them further because it
will make more burst. So lots of other
seeds weren't completely hydrated and
thus many endospore membranes were dry
and survived the PC.

When you cook them on the lowest heat you
cook them for a longer time. I was doing
it today and it seems like you can just
keep cooking them and cooking them. They
dont give you that bursted seed time to stop
look. Thus more thoroughly hydrating more
of the seeds to kill endospores.

Smellyhobbit said:
The problems people have with oats have always intrigued me, given the purpose of a pressure cooker cycle


Exactly! Then there's only one logical
explanation and that's the bacterial
endospores weren't throughly hydrated
enough Or else they'd be destroyed.
Dry endospores deep with the seed
structure survive the PC


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Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

Edited by rumfor69 (07/27/22 07:44 PM)

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69] * 2
    #27879746 -

Tis but a theory until solid documented trials and results are collected :wink:

I managed to get oats fat and hydrated. They take longer than rye.


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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: LotKid]
    #27879765 -

I’ve been using crimped oats since leaving my humble PF tek beginnings behind and have had no issues (other than all the mistakes made learning agar/ contams).

I don’t know if them being crimped helps average out total hydration
/boil time of grains, but they work. The only negative is if you shake way too hard for too long (I mean truly banging that shit), you’ll burst some grains that get stuck inside the jar.

I don’t like these because I feel it’s a a”weakened” grain with an exposed and smeared interior, so I shake my jars mindfully to avoid fucking them up.

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: Nimpo] * 1
    #27879778 -

Idk man, and I mean it all around. I love my oats. I've only prepped with bods tek(boil). Only had issues with a single bag. It was a brand I only used once that many others with more experience & knowledge have had issues. I can't help but think there's something up with that brand and other issues are just user error & bad cultures like any other aspect of growing.

But I'm also not someone that really understands and can evaluate endospore theory. So I wish you good luck in your future trials. Maybe in a year you'll have these other smart guys convinced.

As far as the brand. Is it not possible its as simple as a fertilizer or fungicide present? Its horse feed. I dont think there's very strict regulations on that stuff to prevent small amounts of chemicals that would be bad for shrooms but not bother a horse.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


Edited by LtLurker (07/27/22 08:41 PM)

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: LotKid]
    #27879781 -

LotKid said:
Tis but a theory until solid documented trials and results are collected :wink:

I managed to get oats fat and hydrated. They take longer than rye.


By existing facts I ment that we know
that properly hydrated endospores are
destroyed in the pressure cooking process.
We do this over and over repeated
successfully. We also know that dry
endospores can survive the pressure cooking
process. So my theory is based on these
known facts, giving it I believe more
merit than any contradictory data.
Especially the thought of a "Bad Bag"
of oats like I've read a lot of people
post.


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Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: LtLurker]
    #27879790 -

LtLurker said:
Idk man, and I mean it all around. I love my oats. I've only prepped with bods tek(boil). Only had issues with a single bag. It was a brand I only used once that many others with more experience & knowledge have had issues. I can't help but think there's something up with that brand and other issues are just user error & bad cultures like any other aspect of growing.

But I'm also not someone that really understands and can evaluate endospore theory. So I wish you good luck in your future trials. Maybe in a year you'll have these other smart guys convinced.

As far as the brand. Is it not possible its as simple as a fertilizer or fungicide present? Its horse feed. I dont think there's very strict regulations on that stuff to prevent small amounts of chemicals that would be bad for shrooms but not bother a horse.


And I wonder if that brand was just seeds
that weren't harvested at a correct ripeness
making the lower "quality". And then boiling
them heating them up quickly gave the oh
there's bursted seeds look so now I gotta
stop cooking them, they're done. When really,
lots of other seeds weren't thoroughly
hydrated leaving a place for endospores to
hide and survive the PC. Cause we know for
a fact if those endospores were hydrated
thoroughly they wouldn't survive the PC
process.


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69]
    #27879893 -

I guess its possible. Its been a while since then, but I know at the time I was pretty competent with my oat prep. I kinda think I would have noticed unswollen seeds during the process, especially on subsequent runs when being more thorough trying prevent more fails. Then compound this by all the other people doing the same. It just seems unlikely a noticeable cause like this wouldn't have been noticed sooner.

I guess stranger things have happened, and if you're right it would be great to have such a simple solution to this issue. Keep at it and prove me wrong.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #27879915 -

Very well spoken. I mostly just want to
put this possibility into the community
here. To inspire a further thought process
into the inconsistency using oats and
explains things that we know are true in
a simple but detailed manner.

As much as experimenting with this sounds
fun I'm expecting a call from a local
feed mill tmrw for pricing on hard winter
wheat.

But I believe this prep theory should be
applied to all grain seed cooking. It's
always better to cook your grain slowly
at the lowest heat to allow the
inconsistency of different seed
structures to all become thoroughly
hydrated.

Like baking in an oven your veggies or
meat become overly cooked on the outside
faster than they become cooked on the
inside...that chicken looks done and is
crisping...but it's only 155°F in the middle
and now you have to overcook the outside
dry to reach 165°F in the middle. Too hot,
to fast.


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69] * 1
    #27880010 -

rumfor69 said:
LotKid said:
Tis but a theory until solid documented trials and results are collected :wink:

I managed to get oats fat and hydrated. They take longer than rye.


By existing facts I ment that we know
that properly hydrated endospores are
destroyed in the pressure cooking process.
We do this over and over repeated
successfully. We also know that dry
endospores can survive the pressure cooking
process. So my theory is based on these
known facts, giving it I believe more
merit than any contradictory data.
Especially the thought of a "Bad Bag"
of oats like I've read a lot of people
post.


Do we have any actual endospore data we're using?


--------------------

:mushroom2: LotKid's PE Tips        :shpongle:    LotKid's Chocolates :mushroom2:
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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: LotKid]
    #27880137 -

LotKid said:
Do we have any actual endospore data we're using?


So maybe I'm incorrectly informed, but
isn't that what the reason of canning
is? Pressure cooking canning kills all
molds, bacteria, and endospores through
the process heating hydrated food and
then having it remain in a sealed container?

If there were endospores left in canned
food every can on the shelf in the store
would puff up like a balloon from bacterial
germination.


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69] * 1
    #27880241 -

Where are you getting youre endospore data? Or are you just making assumptions without any actual empirical evidence?

Sounds like assumptions. I can admit that i dont know shit about endospores. I've only ever heard ppl on here talk about them and have yet to see any actual scientific data on them. So i was just wondering if youve got some scientific data youre looking at or just going off some posts on this site.


--------------------

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:dancingbear: :dancingbear:

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: LotKid]
    #27880260 -

I'm going from knowledge of food processing
and canning. Say you grew green beans in
your garden. Those beans are permeated
with bacteria, mold, and spores. The plants
immune system deals with them most the
time and has a symbiotic relationship
with them just as our bodies do also.

So you harvest your green beans, cut them
up, load into jars, add water, and pressure
cook. All of the endospores and active
bacteria and fungus is thoroughly hydrated.
Their membranes are soft and the extreme
temperatures in the pressure cooker rupture
them and they are destroyed.

Canned food has an almost infinite shelf
life. Sure you shouldn't eat it after so
long but it's possible if the can remains
intact you could eat that food 5yrs later.
I wouldn't recommend it but it's very
possible. If there were still bacterial
spores in them, they wouldn't last a week
on the shelf.


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

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Re: My Theory On The Problem With Oats [Re: rumfor69]
    #27880269 -

I dont think bacteria comes from spores.

So, that answered my qyestion in that this is all based on basic knowledge and assumption vs some scientific data that had been collected.


--------------------

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