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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad?
    #2769876 - 06/06/04 08:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Was it good or bas for people under Soviet rule?

Was it good or bad for the rest of the world?

Was it good or bad for America?

How much credit/blame can America be given for it's collapse?

What were the main reasons that it did collapse, and why hasn't China gone through a similar transformation?

How much credit can Ronald Reagan be given for it's collapse?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2769899 - 06/06/04 08:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Putting an huge event like this just in the categories of good and bad is much too simple. It was good for the majority of the people under the Soviet rule, from what I hear of the American filtered version of it, and the rest of the world, well, it depends on the country. America, I believe I liked it better when there was another superpower to keep us in check, while now we can do much more damage unchallenged. It's collapse may have been sped up by certain events, but it seemed inevitable unless the Soviet government changed it's methods a bit, which it didn't. Of course it's a bit ridiculous to say it's inevitable, since the collapse of even the greatest empire is inevitable, but the Soviet Union's collapse was much more imminent than some others.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Ravus]
    #2770055 - 06/06/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

alot of cool things died when the Soviet Union died.

Of course the SU had its brutal brutal horrible aspects, but alot of people dont know about all the great aspects of the SU, like the diversity of local youth clubs. Back in the days of the union, cities would have a large number of youth clubs for anything that kids/teenagers were interested in, these clubs gave the kids lots of resources and lots of space to pursue whatever interests they had.

Its sad that these programs died out along with the SU, but hey....now they have 60 channels filled to the brim with stupidity.

"How much credit can Ronald Reagan be given for it's collapse?"

not much, the SU was internally deconstructed. Thank Nikita, thank Gorbachev.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Positronius]
    #2770219 - 06/06/04 11:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You say 'a lot of cool things' and you list one mediocre-sounding thing..Please elaborate some more.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2770397 - 06/07/04 12:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

medi-ocre? oh, whats that? the sound of someone who doesnt know shit all?

(listens) yep, thats ancalagon.

Heres an idea, go befriend someone who lived in the SU or an SSR okay? get back to me on that.

no offense or anything, but who the fuck are you to say that something like that is mediocre?

jeeez, what else was good about communism, well....check out some of the old SSRs like Azerbaijan and notice how that since they became capitalist kleptocracies, they have gone straight to shit.



Edited by Positronius (06/07/04 12:30 AM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Positronius]
    #2770569 - 06/07/04 01:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I bet if the Soviets were still in Afghanistan, 9/11 would never have happened.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2770580 - 06/07/04 01:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Alot happened in Afghanistan between 1989-1995. Only in 1996 did the Taliban take power in much of Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda existed long before they moved there.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2770765 - 06/07/04 04:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

New nations have formed where the Soviet Union once stood. Other nations in the eastern bloc were held captive and they are now free. Hundreds of millions of people are now free to choose their own political destiny as a result.

You know what is odd? None of them have used their freedom to choose going back to the old system. I just don't get it. I think I will hit my head with a stick again.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Positronius]
    #2770851 - 06/07/04 06:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe I should have said mediocre-sounding...and maybe you shouldn't have given a total dickhead response. Good job not really replying to what I said though...I'll repeat, you said A LOT OF COOL THINGS ended with the fall of the USSR. What were they?

edit:Just checked back...I did say mediocre-sounding. What the hell are you getting so personally offended about?


Edited by Ancalagon (06/07/04 06:56 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2771261 - 06/07/04 12:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You know what is odd? None of them have used their freedom to choose going back to the old system

Give it time JC, it's only been a decade. Judging by the catastrophic drop in living standards most of the eastern european countries are experiencing now free market capitalism has got it's paws on them this won't be the end of the story. There's an awful lot of economic migrants from Eastern Europe turning up in the UK because the situation in their own countries is so bad.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2771904 - 06/07/04 04:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What the hell are you getting so personally offended about


---sorry, heavy workload, lack of sleep....some times I go off the deep end for no reason.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2772119 - 06/07/04 05:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

a little off topic but...

I'm pretty sure that without the influence of the soviet union, we would have never gone into space...

Why? Because the soviets were the only government that had the fucking balls to toss aside the petty interests of the proletarian masses and actually do something important with their nation's resources.

It took fear of the soviets to get americans to care about space. Without the fascist soviet influence, Americans would not have seen the need for such an obscure scientific pursuit... they would have invested all those resources into building inefficient motorcars and other means of pointlessly conspicuous consumption instead.

just something to think about.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2772164 - 06/07/04 05:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

> I'm pretty sure that without the influence of the soviet union, we would have never gone into space...

We would have gotten there eventually... but I agree that we wouldn't have gotten there as fast... and might have never bothered heading for the moon. I think the only reason we are talking about mars missions is because China might get there first if we don't start now.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2772349 - 06/07/04 06:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It was a lot better in the SU countries before everything fell. I lived there for half my life and now organized crime is huge but capitalism is becoming a huge part of the region. Is that good or bad? That place is becoming more and more like America.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2772467 - 06/07/04 07:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What good has come from space exploration?


Sattelite TV?


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2772477 - 06/07/04 07:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ask me that question in a thousand years, when Earth is destroyed and humans are forced to seek shelter amongst the stars :smile: 

earth is just a mushroom cap.  we need to start sending out spores.  Otherwise, our genetics die with our planet, which does indeed have a finite life span.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2772562 - 06/07/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ask me that question in a thousand years, when Earth is destroyed and humans are forced to seek shelter amongst the stars

earth is just a mushroom cap. we need to start sending out spores. Otherwise, our genetics die with our planet, which does indeed have a finite life span.



Maybe so, but you have no way to know that finite life span meets its end in a thousand years. Indeed, it will be at least a couple of billion years until the sun is a Red Giant rendering the Earth incapable of sustaining current life.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2772596 - 06/07/04 07:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

maybe.  or maybe it will be much less than 1,000 years.  the world could end at any minute.  as a matter of fact, we are statistically due for both a meteor strike and a pole shift sometime within the next 1,000 years. 

a smart species would be making accomodations for these problems.  But ours is barely even aware of them. 

s'OK though.  Its only the destruction of the human race.  No big deal :smile:


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2772621 - 06/07/04 07:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

We should be putting more money in an asteroid defense system than going to mars.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The fall of the Soviet Union... good or bad? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2772658 - 06/07/04 08:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

indeed.

asteroids have caused most of the 5 great extinction waves in our planet's history.

I'm not quite sure of this, but I do believe that the number of people currently employed to watch the skies for incoming asteroids is in the single digits.

I guess television stars are in greater demand than scientists. What idiot would want to help ensure the survival of our race when they could be spending those resources on coke and hookers?


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