Mr.GuessWork said:

@Revolution.gurl
The flu shot is labeled as a vaccine, strait up. It is a vaccination.

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morrowasted said:

What is "the topic", in your mind?  Because while yes I have said that I think it is stupid for most people not to get vaccinated, and that yes I think it would objectively be in everyone's best interests if vaccination were required, I am not the type to take myself so seriously that I would force it to happen. So let's stop talking past each other. All we really disagree about is whether or not most people would be better off in a society where the vaccines were mandated. This can remain a theoretical disagreement.

All I can say is that it's not the kind of disagreement I have with people that have a significant amount of education in biology, medicine, and history. People have lost touch with the suffering of the past. Some people are doing everything they can to try to save those people. I limit what I do to online conversation. For the first six to nine months of the pandemic I was, indeed very openly trying to educate people around me about the topics that would help them respond to this set of circumstances most effectively. I did this because I realized that if this had occurred before I received that education, I would have potentially responded in a way that is both self-destructive and bad for those around me. If you search my name and covid you will find quite a few threads and even one subforum devoted entirely to me acting on the faith that others would also respond in a sensible manner if exposed to the right information. Let's just say that my faith is waning.

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Mr.GuessWork said:

The main purpose of the widespread vaccination campaign is a public health mission. It's about lowering the disease burden in the population and it's incredibly effective at that. Places with higher vaccination rates have had less serious illness and less people dying of covid. The uncontrolled spread of serious illness is absolutely detrimental to society at large and everyone benefits from widespread vaccination. And vaccine mandates work pretty well, both historically (you've probably never seen a case of polio or measles), and presently with covid. People generally do easy things when it's punishing to avoid doing them. What we need are more widespread mandates so people don't have to make choices they aren't equipt to understand. Here's a little article on how well mandates are working here:

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211110/covid-vaccine-mandates-working#:~:text=10%2C%202021%20%E2%80%93%20While%20COVID%2D,%25%2C%20according%20to%20ABC%20News.


Vaccination is just part of the strategy, but it's the easiest to implement and it's by far the most effective at this point. The solution doesn't have to be absolutly effective, and anyone that's implicitly arguing toward that end is a danger to everyone around them because they're propagating a vaccuum that's really easy for private interests to exploit with misinformation. widespread use of primary prevention is the most effective way to reduce the incidence of disease. That's epidemiology 101.


Your mom would most likely benefit from vaccination if she's immunocompromised. They were among the first to get vaccinated in most places because they get the most benefit. She might not have an optimal immune response and may have a lower antibody titer than normal after vaccination, but she'd still likely get some benefit, and would probably get even more benfit from regular boosters. Shingles is also way different than covid, and I've seen plenty of young healthy people get shingles. I highly doubt that's a good predictor of response to the vaccines. There are also very few medical situations were these vaccines do more harm than good.


And you're reaaaaallllly wrong about flu shots. "flu shot" is just a colloquial expression. It's common knowledge and common vernacular to refer to a "flu shot" as a vaccine. they're  also part of your vaccination record. Here's the link from the CDC titled "Seasonal Flu Vaccines":

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/flushot.htm

flu shot is just a colloquial expression. this is not a good point to invite criticism on, and you should just admit that it's a vaccine. I wouldn't waste time trying to find a link that says it's not a vaccine. You're going to end up deeper down the misinformation hole that way.

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Tripsurfer said:

Im not talking about conspiracies

I just have a problem with "science" being protrayed as this infallible bastion of noble truth seekers.


Everything run by humans turns to shit eventually

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morrowasted said:

This is called nihilism

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Tripsurfer said:

Im not talking about conspiracies

I just have a problem with "science" being protrayed as this infallible bastion of noble truth seekers.


Everything run by humans turns to shit eventually

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r3volution.gurl said:

morrowasted said:

What is "the topic", in your mind?  Because while yes I have said that I think it is stupid for most people not to get vaccinated, and that yes I think it would objectively be in everyone's best interests if vaccination were required, I am not the type to take myself so seriously that I would force it to happen. So let's stop talking past each other. All we really disagree about is whether or not most people would be better off in a society where the vaccines were mandated. This can remain a theoretical disagreement.

All I can say is that it's not the kind of disagreement I have with people that have a significant amount of education in biology, medicine, and history. People have lost touch with the suffering of the past. Some people are doing everything they can to try to save those people. I limit what I do to online conversation. For the first six to nine months of the pandemic I was, indeed very openly trying to educate people around me about the topics that would help them respond to this set of circumstances most effectively. I did this because I realized that if this had occurred before I received that education, I would have potentially responded in a way that is both self-destructive and bad for those around me. If you search my name and covid you will find quite a few threads and even one subforum devoted entirely to me acting on the faith that others would also respond in a sensible manner if exposed to the right information. Let's just say that my faith is waning.

---

Good for you. Yeah we are better off just agreeing to disagree. No one wants to actually solve the root problems like billions of people living too closely together to begin with. These bandaid solutions will not work long term and we have a lot more viruses and bacteria in store since the permafrost is melting and we are still breeding them with wet markets and animal agriculture, but hey, everyone getting covid shots 2 or 3 times a year will fix all that right? Yall want to keep pretending, sure. That's why this civilization is not going to last. Mother nature is no joke, our technology does not compare. Everyone is not getting the covid shots, that's a fact we have to consider and act accordingly. There are other ways to beat viruses like actual treatments which are completely ignored because of a profiteering campaign of the shots.

Mr.GuessWork said:

The main purpose of the widespread vaccination campaign is a public health mission. It's about lowering the disease burden in the population and it's incredibly effective at that. Places with higher vaccination rates have had less serious illness and less people dying of covid. The uncontrolled spread of serious illness is absolutely detrimental to society at large and everyone benefits from widespread vaccination. And vaccine mandates work pretty well, both historically (you've probably never seen a case of polio or measles), and presently with covid. People generally do easy things when it's punishing to avoid doing them. What we need are more widespread mandates so people don't have to make choices they aren't equipt to understand. Here's a little article on how well mandates are working here:

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211110/covid-vaccine-mandates-working#:~:text=10%2C%202021%20%E2%80%93%20While%20COVID%2D,%25%2C%20according%20to%20ABC%20News.


Vaccination is just part of the strategy, but it's the easiest to implement and it's by far the most effective at this point. The solution doesn't have to be absolutly effective, and anyone that's implicitly arguing toward that end is a danger to everyone around them because they're propagating a vaccuum that's really easy for private interests to exploit with misinformation. widespread use of primary prevention is the most effective way to reduce the incidence of disease. That's epidemiology 101.


Your mom would most likely benefit from vaccination if she's immunocompromised. They were among the first to get vaccinated in most places because they get the most benefit. She might not have an optimal immune response and may have a lower antibody titer than normal after vaccination, but she'd still likely get some benefit, and would probably get even more benfit from regular boosters. Shingles is also way different than covid, and I've seen plenty of young healthy people get shingles. I highly doubt that's a good predictor of response to the vaccines. There are also very few medical situations were these vaccines do more harm than good.


And you're reaaaaallllly wrong about flu shots. "flu shot" is just a colloquial expression. It's common knowledge and common vernacular to refer to a "flu shot" as a vaccine. they're  also part of your vaccination record. Here's the link from the CDC titled "Seasonal Flu Vaccines":

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/flushot.htm

flu shot is just a colloquial expression. this is not a good point to invite criticism on, and you should just admit that it's a vaccine. I wouldn't waste time trying to find a link that says it's not a vaccine. You're going to end up deeper down the misinformation hole that way.

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She wouldn't benefit. It could actually kill her. She almost died from the flu and she gets the flu shot every year. The shots personally caused me swollen lymph nodes in my neck that I'm actually getting a ct scan for. I also haven't needed antibiotics since I was a late teen and I needed antibiotics less than a month after I took the shots from laryngitis. I was better off without it and just letting nature do what will if I do get it and keep myself as healthy as possible instead of trusting people who literally can't function without dependency on a corrupt immoral system.

Omfg dude I never said it wasn't a vaccine. Please learn what semantics are. That's what I'm arguing.

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koods said:

Darwin23 said:

Pretty sure I got COVID again.

I had COVID in April of 2021 and got vaccinated in June. The girl that gave it to me in April got it again in October, so it's definitely a thing. Anyway, I took my grandad out to eat 4 or 5 days before Christmas. His household ended up postponing Christmas because they all tested positive for COVID (their second time too + all vaccinated). I was DEAAAAAD on Christmas and wasn't sure why. I could barely keep my eyes open. I just didn't connect the dots. Major shortness of breath has manifested in the last few days too. It's almost certainly COVID.

All of this brings to question. Why even bother? My grandad's whole household is vaccinated and still, they all got it. If I definitely have it, I'm another example. My symptoms in April were only extreme fatigue and shortness of breath (no cough), and I'd say this past week has been totally comparable (meaning the vaccine hasn't lessened the symptoms for me). If we're all going to keep getting it, vaccinated or otherwise, why fight it? We're long past the point of containing it. Allowing a milder and more virulent strain to mutate and outcompete the current strains is our best way forward, at this point.

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Because we have a lot of people who still have no immunity to covid, and when they get it about 1 in 150 will die because they don’t have immunity. 1 in 30 will end up in the hospital. These people have to be vaccinated. There are still too many of them and they will be responsible for continued preventable deaths and morbidly, and clog up our hospitals. When everybody has immunity we can go back to a normal life. I don’t give a flying fuck about their personal freedom, because their poor choices are having a severe detrimental effect on everyone else. Some of these people are generally too ignorant or too brainwashed to understand the problem. We just have to make them do it. As we have always done when we have vaccines to prevent mass casualty.

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And what makes any one of those lives any more important than mine?
-1

r3volution.gurl said:

Mr.GuessWork said:

@Revolution.gurl
The flu shot is labeled as a vaccine, strait up. It is a vaccination.

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It's not labelled as such on mainstream media or any advertisements where flu shots are administered. Do I need to bring evidence of that up? Really? Lol

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koods said:

r3volution.gurl said:

Mr.GuessWork said:

@Revolution.gurl
The flu shot is labeled as a vaccine, strait up. It is a vaccination.

---

It's not labelled as such on mainstream media or any advertisements where flu shots are administered. Do I need to bring evidence of that up? Really? Lol

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You’re just making shit up

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I don't make shit up. Language is extremely powerful and important in actually educating positively and honestly to people. When Governments and institutions purposefully use certain words that aren't logically the best fit, but it suits a specific agenda, people notice and lose trust as they should. If the gov didn't blatantly lie and bullshit people about the potential of covid shots needed, then using covid vaccine wouldn't be a big deal because they aren't masquerading it in relation to other amazing vaccines created, but they did and it's obvious they are manipulating people to believe it's the all saving grace.

I have no medical degrees and even I could predict multiple covid shots yearly based on the simple fact covid mutates quickly. Shitty journalism, shitty gov, shitty corporations.

The flu shot is closer to the covid shots in function and results than any other vaccine. This is common sense.

Their advertised language is a public relations issue. It's almost like they want many divides in their citizens because it's a great distraction from the atrocities they are committing globally and robbing our country's resources. But we won't get into that because you're clearly super ignorant.

Mr.GuessWork said:

if those lymph nodes just got swollen after the vaccine, then they're almost definitely not cancer, and they'll go away on their own after a while. So you won't just live with swollen lymph nodes, you'll also get a CT/PET scan and maybe a biopsy for no good reason. If they've been slowly growing and they're barely noticeable, then I'd be rooting for the CT/PET. What do you think they'll do when those tests come back negative other than tell you it's probably not cancer?

Those are all better reasons for your mom to get a covid vaccine. She's higher risk for serious covid complications. You'd have to be crazy to be on immunosuppressants and not be vaccinated.

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hummingbird said:

Science is for sale to the highest bidder these days.

Also, I know of two people who's doctor told them not to get the shot because they are immunocompromised. One has lupus, and the other one I'm not sure exactly what's going on. Should we force them to get it against their doctor's recommendation? I have a feeling the "experts" on here are going to have some negative things to say about those doctors for some reason and say yes we should...

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