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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: multifractal]
    #27395162 -

Hello people, These are golden teacher mycelium from a clone and they are on their 5 transfer.

Are they a monoculture though?? They must be close but I can't quite tell.

Oh and btw there are a few areas that look weird its just where i took the next set of transfers from. Also im not fussed about them touching the sides because i will be using the next set of transfers for inoculation.

Opinions please


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy] * 1
    #27395191 -

Grain of salt time:

They are almost certainly not monocultures after just 5 transfers. I'm pretty sure the only true way to confirm if something is a monoculture is by microscopy. Even a plate that shows no sectoring isn't necessarily a monoculture. Is there really any way to produce monocultures other than by germinating a single spore? Even a culture containing only one dikaryon pairing (would this be considered a monoculture?) seems to me to only be feasible either by some sort of more sophisticated mechanical separation or through the "mating" of two monokaryotic cultures rather than by performing transfers.

Is the term "isolate" (as used on this site) simply referring to a culture that no longer shows sectoring? If so then yeah, those look close to being an "isolate" but I think the word is formally used to also refer to a monokaryotic system.

If any of this is incorrect please let me know.

Edited by multifractal (07/20/21 05:06 PM)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: multifractal]
    #27395234 -

multifractal said:
Grain of salt time:

They are almost certainly not monocultures after just 5 transfers. I'm pretty sure the only true way to confirm if something is a monoculture is by microscopy. Even a plate that shows no sectoring isn't necessarily a monoculture. Is there really any way to produce monocultures other than by germinating a single spore? Even a culture containing only one dikaryon pairing (would this be considered a monoculture?) seems to me to only be feasible either by some sort of more sophisticated mechanical separation or through the "mating" of two monokaryotic cultures rather than by performing transfers.

Is the term "isolate" simply referring to a culture that no longer shows sectoring? If so then yeah, those look close to being an "isolate"

If any of this is incorrect please let me know.



cool, thanks frac. i love your science.


--------------------
SpaceBaby
SPACEBABY'S LAGM22 THREAD
MUSHBOY'S SHROOM TEA TEK

Me as a cube

Another Day's Work:


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: SpaceBaby]
    #27395291 -

It's all of our science :heart:

Edited by multifractal (07/20/21 05:12 PM)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: multifractal]
    #27395323 -

Trying to select for a true single strain isolate with a scalpel is like trying to pick up a pencil if your fingers were the size of sky scrapers.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: multifractal]
    #27395352 -

I do see what you are saying, from what I've read people say they do achieve a monoculture from just multiple isolations, but who knows if they actually are without microscopy to see if they are dikaryon's. I don't really even know what causes the cytoplasm to fuse and whether it is a process that always happens, because if it is then your right I can't see any possibility of separating them without a different technique. But I think for the most part people would suffice with minimal strains and are probably just referring too the lack of sectoring. I suppose that is really what I was asking, is can anyone see any sectoring that I am missing.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy]
    #27395360 -

I see lots of sectoring. Each individual rhizomorphic band is a sector, there's literally thousands of them on your plate. You do have uniform, clean growth and that's good enough in my books.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27395374 -

Ah okay, I got from another source probably youtube, I know not the most reliable source but they seemed to refer to a sector as a area that shows different growth characteristics ie more tomentose or more raised compared with neighbouring growth.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy]
    #27395378 -

So how can you determine separate strains?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy]
    #27395384 -

If you look very closely at your plates you can see that there are spaces between the ropes of mycelium, this is a sector. Even if you were able to isolate one of those sectors, say with a syringe, that rhizomorphic rope contains further thousands of microscopic hyphal filaments all wrapped and intertwined together.

A strain is a single microscopic dikaryotic hyphal filament.

If you grab a magnifying glass you'll better be able to see the separate sectors, but those sectors are teeming with a lattice of individual microscopic strains.

Your plates look very clean though, nice work:thumbup:

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy]
    #27395387 -

Nomenclature is one of this hobby’s biggest problems. People can cultivate mushrooms like no one’s business but still call species “strains” or mix up monoculture and isolate.

Dikaryon are super small obviously so it’s next to impossible to get a single “strain” isolated but that wouldn’t even be beneficial as other dikaryons contribute to the formation of the fruit bodies as well


--------------------
Mehhh



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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Wall.E]
    #27395389 -

Oh and congrats man


--------------------
Mehhh



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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Wall.E]
    #27395390 -

Thanks man.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27395396 -

p9hu7 said:
If you look very closely at your plates you can see that there are spaces between the ropes of mycelium, this is a sector. Even if you were able to isolate one of those sectors, say with a syringe, that rhizomorphic rope contains further thousands of microscopic hyphal filaments all wrapped and intertwined together.

A strain is a single microscopic dikaryotic hyphal filament.

If you grab a magnifying glass you'll better be able to see the separate sectors, but those sectors are teeming with a lattice of individual microscopic strains.

Your plates look very clean though, nice work:thumbup:



So are all the sectors different strains or do true monoculture still show sectoring?
Thanks though a lot weren't so good, think im almost at 100 plates in now from the single clone i started with.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy]
    #27395401 -

Those strains are orders of magnitude more  numerous than the visible sectors, 10fuckload

I've never seen a single strain culture, I have no idea how it would look...but I do know what it doesn't look like.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27395409 -

Yeah I must go buy a book i think. There is a lot of conflicting info on google and nothing much that explains in depth. But thanks for your help has given me much to think about :smile:

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy]
    #27395415 -

Np man, definitely pick up some books. This information isn't that difficult to find on the net either, you just have to read everything you can.

Googling:

How many dikaryotic strains are present in a culture won't get you far, I think it's too specific. Read everything you can about the Basidiomycota life cycle and you'll find what you're looking for. Sometimes inferences need to be made, but they're somewhat obvious inferences.

Look up terms as they appear and follow those rabbit holes, you'll find that once the language is demystified much of it isn't as complex as it sounds, though there is plenty of that to find as well.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27395426 -

Yeah good advice, I think that is a problem I find a lot, where the information I want is too specific for a google search. So as you said I will have to do more general reading till it all fits in place. Cheers

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy]
    #27395431 -

:cheers:

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: HerdyGurdy]
    #27395433 -

I'm unclear on the topic of dikaryote fusion. I thought anastomosis only occurred between two monokaryotic hyphae in the formation of a dikaryote and even though dikaryotes can grow over each other I did not think they could really "fuse", unless you're talking about the process of fruit formation which is not fusion, but obviously many people are able to cross "strains" by mixing grain spawn which is supposedly a mix of many dikaryotes. So what is happening here? Is it simply that this mix of dikaryotic mycelium combines in the formation of mushrooms where the two "strains" are then able to contribute phenotypically? In literature anastomosis is defined as the gene exchange between two "isolates" and contextual information gives me the impression this does not mean dikaryotes.

Can someone provide me with a source for any information you might have to offer on the topic? I'd love to know more about this.

Thanks!

Edited by multifractal (07/20/21 09:35 PM)

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