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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Advanced Mycology
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spent cakes = worm castings?
    #2653073 -

I have been dumping spent cakes and contaminated straw projects into a plastic sweater bin. I filled it about 3/4 full it grew out with green mold, after three weeks that died off. Then yeast grew all over the walls of the bin. That lasted a little over a week and a half.
The smell never got very strong, even when the yeast was growing the room had a plesant earthy smell. Like it had alot of fresh potted plants in it.
Two weeks ago I put around 10-12 dozen nightcrawlers in with it. The worms are doing great. They are tearing through this closet compost fast. I had inteneded on growing the nightcrawlers for fishing and feeding pets. It sounded like a good way to get rid of old/bad grows at the same time.
This mix was 60% cakes and 40% straw, and grain. Now is is 100% primo worm poo, verm mix. It is fluffy, moist, smells like a growers heaven. The undigested grain in the spent cakes with the added straw, grain, and dead yeast, is all composted, mixed and then digested by the worms.
What I want to know is...
With this being mostly made out of spent cakes, would it be a worthy compost for shrooms again, or should I just save it for plants.
Also...
If this does well as a subtrate, I would like to experiment with Tryptamine enhancment. Do you guys think it would be best to ad the Tryp. before or after the worms do their work.


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Re: spent cakes = worm castings? [Re: cricket]
    #2658612 -

Well? Would it be worth it?


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Re: spent cakes = worm castings? [Re: cricket]
    #2658663 -

cricket said:
Well? Would it be worth it?


Are you trying to see how the worms react to the tryptamine or is there no point to the experiment? If there is relevancy between the two variables please elaborate, or is this just a random uncontrolled experiment?

--
Micro


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Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

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Re: spent cakes = worm castings? [Re: micro]
    #2658743 -

This is realy a two part question.
1. Would this box of worm eaten spent cakes and bad straw, contain enough nutrience to support growth?

2. If I was to add Trypt. Would allowing the worms to pre-digest the Tryptamine hcl leave you with a substance more easily utilized by the mushrooms? Or... Would would the worms digestive system totaly break down the Trypt?


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I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work...
By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?

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Re: spent cakes = worm castings? [Re: cricket]
    #2658777 -

if yer gunna use werms, you should get some red wigglers, they will rip thru that shit fast.


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Peace all.

Jater

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Re: spent cakes = worm castings? [Re: dastats]
    #2658903 -

RE: cricket

No. Tryptamine isn't what mushrooms thrive upon -- people are only interested in it because it's a direct precursor to psilocybin -- just a few steps up from psilocybin in the organism's metabolic pathway. Mushrooms thrive upon nutrients like proteins and carbohydrates and sugars, a lot like people. It's not a way to boost metabolism -- only the production of psilocybin.

Spent and contaminated cakes and casings are just such -- they are used and contaminated and aren't a good substrate. It IS possible for mushrooms to grow off of them, but for an indoor environment a fresh substrate better suits the prerequisites for growth. Certain mycoparisitic fungi (i.e. Trichoderma sp.) will attack your fungi and there isn't much of a way for you to differentiate between a parasitic or competitive strain of the inhabitant. Not only that, but the fungi you want doesn't have a good hold on the substrate, it only makes it more unlikely for it to become the dominant inhabitant of the specific substrate, especially in a (relatively) closed-air environment. Mycoparasites are very opportunistic and grow a lot faster than the basidiomycetes -- the basidios seem to have their specific niche and a genetic composition to propmote this certain niche. Spent cakes and casings, however, have been known to flush when planted outdoors -- IMO probably a power-in-numbers type of thing. Indoors, though, you're better off buying straw for $5 a bale (how much more do you need???) and doing everything fresh, IMO. Worms won't do much -- their normal job in nature is to break down the freshly deceased plant material before the fungi break it down. Tryptamine has an insignificant role in nutrition.

--
Micro


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Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

Edited by micro (05/10/04 02:44 AM)

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Re: spent cakes = worm castings? [Re: micro]
    #2659129 -

Sorry. I wasn't talking about adding Tryp. as a nutrient. I was talking about alkoloid production. I thought that would have been known.
Half of this is straw and grain. It was contaminated, and allowed to compost just as it would have if it had been outside. Wouldn't this be the same as taking compost from the pile in the yard, and adding verm. to it?
I have some spawn left. I think I'll bleach dunk some and see how it does.


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Re: spent cakes = worm castings? [Re: cricket]
    #2659164 -

I am also interested to know about 'spent casing compost'...

I got a pile of it from outside the shiitake farm in Takahama...  It was originally about 70% spent casings (spent from a commercial perspective that is...) and 30% 'ugly' mushrooms.  It looked to have been composting outdoors for a good 12 months or more (plenty of worms :wink: ) and had never had a bacterial or mold issue that I know of.

What I would like to know is if this would be a suitable substrate for 'compost loving' mushrooms.

Also...  I was wondering...  If lack of nitrogen (despite a years worth of worm poo) were the issue here, would it be possible to 'revamp' the compost with urine and give it another couple of weeks in the compost bin.


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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Advanced Mycology
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