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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: Patlal]
    #26182691 -

:whathesaid:


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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: Patlal]
    #26183151 -

Not really.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26183515 -

The Ecstatic said:
Anyone going for Warren over Sanders has zero credibility.


Useful idiots imo


I'll take the one that can get the nomination over Biden. It will be interesting to see if Sanders and Warren go after each other in this debate. They've just been buddies so far.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26184571 -

Of course I would prefer Warren to Biden, or the rest of the field.

But we don’t get ranked choice voting, or the ability to vote for two candidates. Anyone choosing Warren over Sanders right now, 6 months before the first primary vote, with Sanders leading Warren by every metric except establishment praise, needs to explain themselves.

Koods says it’s because Warren is a wonk. Except she’s already walked back her positions on extremely important agenda items like healthcare. Warren is all of a sudden talking about “real structural change” but can’t even get behind Medicare For All, and eliminating private insurance, something a vast majority of Democrats (let alone Americans in general) want. If she can’t even take on the corporate interests on an issue the public already agrees that she should, why would I believe she’s gonna do any of her “plans?” And this is just based on recent rhetoric. Her record is much more problematic than that.


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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26184727 -

:youthemandawg:

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: relic]
    #26184785 -

Apparently Warren is getting help from Hillarys campaign team now and that comes at a price.
Warren was my last choice if Gabbard Yang and Bernie didn't make it, may have to write in Gabbard and settle for four more years of entertainment debauchery. :justdontknow:


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-The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought-
-"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".-
-When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".-
-If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.-

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
    #26184825 -

HOW IS 2016 DEMOCRATS DIFFERENT FROM 2020 DEMOCRATS!!!


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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #26184891 -

The Ecstatic said:
Anyone going for Warren over Sanders has zero credibility.


Useful idiots imo


Jimmy Dore just came out against Warren for accepting corporate money (and other things).  Ouch.



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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26184929 -

Same as always in both parties,
As long as people vote establishment bought people and detached elites in positions of power nothing will change. The rules will just get better for them and worse for us.
No one wants to go through the suffering that must happen to change this country around. Hooked and pimped out like bunch of heroine addicts we are.
To domesticated and hooked on consumerism I fear. Like the domesticated dog left to the wolves.

The future is looking bleek and the only comforting thing I see is the restlessness of the working class and more grassroots participation.

There are only a small handful on ether side of the parties that want to serve the people but they are running in a system and culture that has been slowly eroded away to work against them. If you want coverage, ya gotta suck it, if ya win ya gotta start swallowing.

Yes we vote for change but which change is that? Real change or the change in our pockets? Recovery or just one more fix?

There is no more of an easy answer than there is a easy solution to your question in the current state of mankinds conditioning.
Which is the insanity for voting for the same 40 year old shit that never gets done expecting different results.

What is different about the people should be the appropriate question perhaps?
If people honestly don't start doing things and participating themselves then be prepared to be ruled by those doing it. You do not have rights until you take the risk and exercise the responsibility to have them. :justdontknow:


--------------------
-The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought-
-"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".-
-When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".-
-If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.-

psychonautwiki.org

How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek.
Principles of mushroom growing for beginners

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26185573 -

The Ecstatic said:
Of course I would prefer Warren to Biden, or the rest of the field.

But we don’t get ranked choice voting, or the ability to vote for two candidates. Anyone choosing Warren over Sanders right now, 6 months before the first primary vote, with Sanders leading Warren by every metric except establishment praise, needs to explain themselves.

Koods says it’s because Warren is a wonk. Except she’s already walked back her positions on extremely important agenda items like healthcare. Warren is all of a sudden talking about “real structural change” but can’t even get behind Medicare For All, and eliminating private insurance, something a vast majority of Democrats (let alone Americans in general) want. If she can’t even take on the corporate interests on an issue the public already agrees that she should, why would I believe she’s gonna do any of her “plans?” And this is just based on recent rhetoric. Her record is much more problematic than that.[/quote

___________________________________________________________________________________________


Sanders is not leading Warren in a lot of polling metrics, and in any case we know which direction each of their momentum has been heading. I worked all night and didn't see the debate.

I completely favor Sanders' vision of Democratic Socialism, and I sent him my lousy $27, but I'm not sure it is anything more than vision. I'm primarily a pragmatist and I'll take what I can get. The most important job is defeating Trump and the second most important job is avoiding Biden. I don't know what happened last night but Bernie needs to make his move.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26185617 -

The debates were pretty boring.

But I’m not sure what polls or momentum you’re referring to. Bernie leads Warren in all of the first 4 primary states, and leads her in the RCP nationwide average. As far as momentum, both are gaining ground while others (Biden, Harris) fall. Warren has been in 3rd place for months, and Bernie hasn’t fallen at all. Other than a few outlier polls, he’s been solidly in 2nd place since Biden entered the race. Not to mention (for the 3rd time) that Sanders is leading (or tied with the lead) in 3 of the first 4 primary states: Iowa, NH, and Nevada. And although Biden has a huge lead in SC, Bernie is also solidly in 2nd. That’s because Warren’s base is extremely monochromatic, she won’t pick up many delegates in the South.


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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26185683 -

Boring debates are not good for dumping Biden.

Yes, the black vote, particularly the black male vote is going for Biden and Sanders, with older guys for Biden and younger with Sanders. Getting younger people to vote is always the challenge.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: Patlal]
    #26185689 -

2020 democrats have seen the republicans hit yet a new low compared to 2016.

The republicans devolved from electing bush, the ass of the elephant, to trump, the poop of the elephant. It stands apart from the elephant now, its just poop worship at this point.


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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26185745 -

The Ecstatic said:
I’m not sure what polls or momentum you’re referring to. Bernie leads Warren in all of the first 4 primary states, and leads her in the RCP nationwide average. As far as momentum, both are gaining ground while others (Biden, Harris) fall.


I'm seeing the same.  Though it appears Warren IS making the biggest gains now that she has the support of the corporate media.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26185957 -

Brian Jones said:
Boring debates are not good for dumping Biden.

Yes, the black vote, particularly the black male vote is going for Biden and Sanders, with older guys for Biden and younger with Sanders. Getting younger people to vote is always the challenge.


Oh well Biden definitely gaffed his ass off in the debate. Forgot Warren’s name, called Bernie the president, Julian Castro basically called him senile to a huge applause line, and then he went off on some weird rant about Venezuela and record players when asked a question about reparations. Of course there’s a plethora of “Biden did what he needed to do, and therefore won” takes from the media today, but the two main draws from last night’s debate was 1) Biden has clear as day cognitive decline, and 2) his record is glaringly at odds with the rest of the field.


The rest of the debate was boring. Cory Booker and Amy Klobuchar talking for way too long. But yeah I don’t see how Biden’s numbers survive as the debates go on. If it were just the mental thing or just the bad record he could probably weather it, but it’s both. When Castro accused him of not remembering what he said 2 minutes ago, Joe turned to Bernie and asked “what did he say?” I almost felt bad for him.


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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26185969 -



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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #26185981 -

Was listening to Medhi Hasan and Ryan Grimm recap the night and both made a good point: 8/10 Sanders supporters would vote Warren and 8/10 Warren supporters would vote Sanders. As Biden continues to slip, whichever of the two other frontrunners can slide past him in the polls first will likely begin to consolidate the progressive vote. Right now polls indicate Sanders is gaining most from Biden’s decline, while Warren is rising due to drops by Harris, Klobuchar, and Buttigieg.


Of course we’re still 140+ days away from the first vote and lots can change. Beto might see a resurgence by being the gun guy. Pete just spent a shitload of cash in Iowa. Sanders and Warren still building their coalitions in early states, and Biden not dropping off as fast as some folks (myself included) thought. It’s fun to analyze the horse race and draw conclusions from the minutiae of the campaign trail, but really we’re still so far out.

I’m just confident that Sanders has a fighting chance simply because of the current situation: won NH, tied Iowa, and narrowly lost NV in 2015, so he has legit ground games existing in those states. The unions in Nevada will definitely be huge for Bernie. Then of course there’s the unprecedented grassroots coalition of donors and campaign workers powering his campaign.  Keep in mind Warren transferred $10M of (dirty) money from her Senate campaign fund as soon as she launched her bid, so she hasn’t really felt the pressure just yet of living up to her small donor only promise (that she’s already broken). It’ll be interesting to see if she can keep growing her donor base enough to sustain her campaign in the long term. The bundlers can only take her so far.


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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26186008 -

The Ecstatic said:
Brian Jones said:
Boring debates are not good for dumping Biden.

Yes, the black vote, particularly the black male vote is going for Biden and Sanders, with older guys for Biden and younger with Sanders. Getting younger people to vote is always the challenge.


Oh well Biden definitely gaffed his ass off in the debate. Forgot Warren’s name, called Bernie the president, Julian Castro basically called him senile to a huge applause line, and then he went off on some weird rant about Venezuela and record players when asked a question about reparations. Of course there’s a plethora of “Biden did what he needed to do, and therefore won” takes from the media today, but the two main draws from last night’s debate was 1) Biden has clear as day cognitive decline, and 2) his record is glaringly at odds with the rest of the field.


The rest of the debate was boring. Cory Booker and Amy Klobuchar talking for way too long. But yeah I don’t see how Biden’s numbers survive as the debates go on. If it were just the mental thing or just the bad record he could probably weather it, but it’s both. When Castro accused him of not remembering what he said 2 minutes ago, Joe turned to Bernie and asked “what did he say?” I almost felt bad for him.


I do feel sorry for Biden and I don't think he even wants to run for President, I believe he's being forced to do it.

Why in the world would this 77 year old man with plenty of money want to do this to himself in his condition? Campaigning around the country for weeks and months at a time is very difficult even for a young person. Look at what it did to Hillary, she was falling apart at the end and couldn't even go to key areas.

Trump is a different person all together, he's energized by talking his BS to his supporters. Hell, he would do 2-3 different places all in the same day.

Romney's own son stated he never knew anyone who wanted to be President less than his father, in other words, he didn't even want to run at all. The MSM never covered that key information after the election.

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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: qman] * 1
    #26186080 -

I’m sure there’s a big group of rich people who know getting Biden to run helps them, but at the same time Biden is vain and incredibly arrogant.

Of course, if Biden didn’t enter the race then Sanders would probably be leading by 20 points, and the establishment won’t let that happen. They’re already blacking out his campaign and he’s in 2nd (of course they’re pretending he’s in third).


Bernie terrifying all the wrong people is reason #1 to support his candidacy, if you want actual change that helps the working class.


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Re: How are the 2020 Democrats different from 2016? [Re: qman]
    #26186587 -

qman said:
I do feel sorry for Biden and I don't think he even wants to run for President, I believe he's being forced to do it.


Seems that way.  But that only happens in Communist China.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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