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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26142479 -

Why do you say we are wretched sinners though?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: life is good]
    #26142482 -

I mean, don't answer that actually, it's rhetorical.

Glad you are feeling this way and spreading hope and good cheer.

Just focus on the positive.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: life is good]
    #26142802 -

Good that your sowing seeds saved7 keep on pushing the message .

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: life is good]
    #26143332 -

life is good said:
Why do you say we are wretched sinners though?


Because we pretend that God doesn't exist, so that we can be the gods of our own lives.  We invent different forms of spirituality that let us live our lives the way we want.

At least that was one of my biggest sins that I was trapped in for most of my life.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: flickedbic]
    #26143615 -

flickedbic said:
No other god has the supporting evidence the God of the bible has.


What "evidence" would that be?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26143621 -

saved7 said:
broshammy said:
"There have been nearly 3000 Gods so far but only yours actually exists.The others are silly made up nonsense. But not yours. Yours is real."


This is like saying "there are over 3000 theories for X, therefore another theory must be wrong".. It's a non-argument.

The very fact that humanity is so consumed with the awareness of God should tell you there may be something real behind it.  But it became fashionable to immediately dismiss anything in reality that could not be weighed and measured.  (It's so ironic how non-believers think that the believers are the brainwashed ones)

In my opinion, there is nothing even remotely comparable with the Christian argument for God supported by the Bible.  The truth of Jesus Christ shines forth into all the world.

I think deep-down everyone knows it is the truth, which is why Jesus provokes so much reaction.  Deep down, everyone knows that they are a failure in need of a Savior.  And Jesus is the ultimate Savior.  He is exactly what we're all looking for when we're finally ready to step off the throne and admit it.


That's a lot of fallacious arguments there. :lol:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26143838 -

better explanation.
not a model but a 'mode'

Edited by akira_akuma (08/20/19 02:14 AM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: akira_akuma]
    #26143849 -

OP please explain how we can have original sin, yet some sense of freewill at the same time to possibly disobey God/Jesus more than we already are/do/did/can recover from.


--------------------

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26143996 -

qman said:
flickedbic said:
No other god has the supporting evidence the God of the bible has.


What "evidence" would that be?



The Bible itself is overwhelming evidence to anyone who actually reads it with an open mind.  To believe that such a text is a product of men.. cobbled together by dozens of authors over thousands of years... simply doesn't hold up in my opinion. 

And then to add to that the fulfilled prophecy of Jesus is more amazing evidence.  That this savior would show up on earth, be rejected and punished by his own...

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.”  - Zechariah 12:10

This was written 500 years before Jesus appeared on earth and was nailed to a cross to die for us.

Jesus turned the world on its head.

There will never be enough evidence for one who seeks to doubt.  Even the ancient israelites who directly witnessed divine miracle after miracle, were happy to abandon God at the first sign of trouble.

I don't think skeptics are nearly as concerned about evidence as they claim to be.  We are mostly concerned with finding ways to continue to live after our own lusts.  In that state of mind, the God of the Bible can never be real, no matter how much evidence is presented. 

If He is real, then we are convicted of our sins, and need forgiveness. So we will pretend to deny him over a supposed lack of 'evidence', rather than face the condition of our hearts.

It is only with a repentant heart, calling out for a savior, do we receive the truth. 

I have my ultimate evidence.  I mocked and ridiculed Christianity and Christians for most of my life, I told myself it was all man-made mind-control... and then I opened my heart to Jesus, and the truth washed over me instantly.  Now I know Jesus is it.  He is the beginning and the end, above all things, the light of the world, the way, the truth, and the life.

You can find out for yourself right now in your room.  Admit that you need God's forgiveness and call out to Him for it... open your heart up to Jesus and He will save you, and you will have all the evidence you ever need.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26144121 -

Loaded Shaman said:
OP please explain how we can have original sin, yet some sense of freewill at the same time to possibly disobey God/Jesus more than we already are/do/did/can recover from.


How's this?: There's no accounting for taste and if I want my morsels stewed in their own shyte then who's going to deny me?


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26144133 -

"I have my ultimate evidence"

Which is an extremely low standard for a true skeptic.

Also, you can't speculate why a skeptic is being skeptical of very weak evidence. That's a fallacious argument.

"There will never be enough evidence for one who seeks to doubt"

For some that may be true, but solid evidence that can consistently be demonstrated should convince almost every person with little trouble. 

Do some people still think the Earth is flat?  Yes, but the very vast majority are convinced by the evidence that demonstrates that the Earth is not flat.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26144302 -

without experiencing turiya, there is no so much any real convincing thing for a theistic "god", per se.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145166 -

qman said:
"I have my ultimate evidence"

Which is an extremely low standard for a true skeptic.

Also, you can't speculate why a skeptic is being skeptical of very weak evidence. That's a fallacious argument.


The evidence for God is not weak.  There is strong evidence.  Take a look around you.  The assumption that nature created itself... that the laws of nature wrote themselves, is a far less tenable position than that of a designer outside of nature. 

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Romans 1:20

We won't be able to say "Gee, we had no idea you existed!" when we stand before our creator on judgment day.  He has made his presence clear.  It's up to the creation whether or not to seek its creator.

qman said:
"There will never be enough evidence for one who seeks to doubt"

For some that may be true, but solid evidence that can consistently be demonstrated should convince almost every person with little trouble. 



We are told that God manifested himself repeatedly to the ancient Israelites and their ancestors.  Shortly after having some divine miracle performed, most of the people would grow stubborn and quickly abandon God, and turn back towards the world. 

Physical evidence does *not* change someone's heart.  The heart can only be changed with faith.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
- Romans 1:17

God knows that the only way to bring people back to Him is for them to willingly offer up their heart and choose Jesus over the world around them.  After you've accepted Jesus, there will be no more doubt.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26145298 -

"There is strong evidence"  Still waiting on it.

"The assumption nature created itself"  That's a strawman argument. Stop assuming the position of a non-believer. 

"that the laws of nature wrote themselves" Another strawman.

"is a far less tenable position than that of a designer outside of nature"

Again, you can't assume my position and then speculate on the probability of a god. That's another fallacious argument.

"God manifested himself repeatedly"  Based on what evidence?  Why don't we ever see manifestations or miracles in 2019?  Is god too tired now?

"The heart can only be changed by faith"  Is there a position I can't take on faith?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145451 -

"Why Should We Take the Bible Seriously?"


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145477 -

I’m not gonna lie I read Mark 3 just now about Jesus healing the deformed hand. I have deformed hands from biting them and the whole beginning of the chapter was resonating with me so much I think I might have converted. But I think I’m Catholic.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145497 -

qman said:
"Why Should We Take the Bible Seriously?"



"§2: Religions based on texts are also unreal- as in they are misapprehending their own reality- [cf. Matt. 11:27 / Qur'an 14:4 & 2:136] no walayah [وِلاية], no silsilah [سلسلة]."

from my blog

Edited by akira_akuma (08/20/19 10:13 PM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145749 -

qman said:
"There is strong evidence"  Still waiting on it.

"The assumption nature created itself"  That's a strawman argument. Stop assuming the position of a non-believer. 

"that the laws of nature wrote themselves" Another strawman.

"is a far less tenable position than that of a designer outside of nature"

Again, you can't assume my position and then speculate on the probability of a god. That's another fallacious argument.


Once more.

The laws of nature are powerful evidence for a supernatural creator.  A law-giver from outside of nature.  That truth is staring you right in the face, and always will be.

But I think you want to find God like a thief wants to find a cop.  And so no evidence will ever be good enough and the psuedo-skeptical charade will continue.

qman said:
"God manifested himself repeatedly"  Based on what evidence?  Why don't we ever see manifestations or miracles in 2019?  Is god too tired now?


I already answered this.  Do you have the ears to hear it?
 
Miracles/manifestations do not change the heart.  They might amaze you for a short-time... and then your lusts and desires come creeping back and you again bow down to them, like the Israelites forging a golden calf in the wilderness. 

This is written about extensively in the Old Testament.  God intervenes and saves his people. The people rejoice for a moment, then turn their attention to their aches and pains and their lusts and desires, and quickly forget God.  This happens over and over again.  The Israelites are wandering, lost in the desert, hungry.  God sends them mana from heaven.  After they eat it, instead of remembering the miracle performed for them, they begin complaining that the food isn't good enough and that there's no meat to eat. 

Imagine having your life saved by an unmistakably divine miracle like that and then immediately after start whining and complaining that it wasn't good enough.  Yet that's what every one of us would do.  Because we're not really looking for God.  We're looking to have our fleshly desires fulfilled.  That's why it is said that we are in bondage to our sin.

Think about your own secret lusts.  Would you give them up because you saw a miracle?  No.  You would tell yourself whatever you need to in order to continue in your desires.  This is the condition of our hearts.  We choose the flesh and the world over surrendering to God.  We worship the creation instead of the creator.

That's why God gave us the faith-based solution of Jesus.  Jesus is someone we must willingly call out for, as our savior.  When we do that, our hearts are changed.  When our hearts are changed, we become reconnected to God.  When Jesus is in our hearts, we leave our old selves behind, we take up our own crosses, and joyfully suffer for Him every day, and the world and its lusts have no more power over us.  Only that faith can bring us back to God and make us willingly surrender our old selves and our old lusts.

You could confirm this for yourself today, right now, if you're willing to admit you need saving and call out to Him.  Jesus stands at the door knocking, waiting for you to answer.

In the end, you can present as being a "skeptic" all you want, and you may fool everyone here, but God sees your heart, and knows whether or not you are truly searching for Him.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26145902 -

"laws of nature are powerful evidence for a supernatural creator"    No, nature is NOT evidence for anything supernatural, let alone a creator.

"no evidence will ever be good enough"  For the claim you're attempting to prove, that's very likely the case. What does that tell you about your assertion? 

"This is written about extensively in the Old Testament"    Why should we care about what's written in a book?

"we become reconnected to God"  That's just based on faith, not evidence.

"Only that faith can bring us back to God"   

Faith is NOT a reliable method to find truth. Let me ask you, do you even care what you believe is true or not?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26146756 -

"Why do you believe there is no god?"


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General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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